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Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

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Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#541

Post by SerLava »

sangnoir wrote: post #520
munk-a wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly - some people just don't like the feeling (me) and some other people (south east asians in particular) are allergic and overly sensitive to booze. There are really, really easy ways to talk yourself out of drinking situations.

> There are really, really easy ways to talk yourself out of drinking situations. Absolutely, but in my experience no other reason shuts down attempts at negotiating/cajoling/follow up questions/suggestions to "just show up and grab a soda" faster than pleading the alcoholism. It appears AA gets more unquestioning deference compared to any other personal/health/religious reasons

Makes sense though- when you have a religious objection to alcohol, someone drinking it near you isn't going to cause actual extreme bodily harm to you.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#542

Post by raxxorrax »

madamelic wrote: post #21
0x500x79 wrote: post #13

This seems to largely match a lot of the same things that happened with Riot Games over the last couple of years. I am hoping that these actions can help spread awareness of any issues that may be present at Blizzard and past, current, and future employees won't face the same issues. It is a long road to be traveled to get there. I hope that the current WFH situation doesn't detract from the walkout. A lot of the vis…

> is the DFEH out of line, or is the industry just that broken? No chance DEFH is out of line. The tech industry is strongly biased in the favor of white men in my opinion and video games even more so, considering women playing video games only became socially acceptable a few years ago. It's still common for men to talk down to women on video games, to the point where the overwhelming majority of women do not use vo…

> considering women playing video games only became socially acceptable a few years ago.

It should be mentioned that this was different from the usual exclusion of women. Women were mostly discriminated from outside the group of those playing games.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#543

Post by sangnoir »

ranguna wrote: post #523
sangnoir wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He should have insinuated being a recovered alcoholic instead, that works for me when I feel I'm being unduly pressured. As someone who doesn't care for drinks, the quickest way to shut-down all that drinks-are-vital-to-our-culture talk is to declare that I used to have a problem with the drink, but I'm sober now, and watch them stammer something about the event being optional.

That's fine if it's true, if not, why tell lies? Just tell them you don't like drinking. We organize the same kind of meetings over at where I work, and if someone says they don't like drinking, we tell them that water is fine, if they say they don't want to join for whatever or no reason, then we say fine and let them know that the meeting will be always open to them.

> That's fine if it's true, if not, why tell lies?

So that we can all skip this step:

> we tell them that water is fine

and jump directly to:

> we say fine and let them know that the meeting will be always open to them.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#544

Post by pengstrom »

RHSeeger wrote: post #360
t-writescode wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the common response here to this sort of comment is "yes, not all men, but too many men", and that it's the responsibility of men to call out the men they see being that kind of deplorable on their actions, to reduce the frequency of those men.

Shaming all men for what a (bad) subset of men do is sexist. Shaming all white men for what a (bad) subset of white men do is sexist and racist. Shaming all black men because some black men are criminals is racist. Highlighting that the (good) majority should call out the (bad) minority is reasonable. Blaming the whole is not. It's true regardless of the target race, or sex, or gender, etc.

"Men" is both a social and biological differentiator. They are the only ones with power to stop this if they want to. We can play philosophy but reality is what it is. Sexism continues because men look the other way, not because women endure it.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#545

Post by fennecfoxy »

yarg wrote: post #362
nineplay wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to make a point about "culture fit" "culture fit" is one of the biggest causes of workplace discrimination and I still see it pushed in 'hiring training' as perfectly valid criteria. Things I've seen teams consider "culture" - will the candidate go to our weekly study session at the micro-brewery? - will the candidate stay after work to play multi-player games with us? - is the candidate entertained by all t…

Culture fit doesn't have to stretch that far - it does not need to be pervasive and it does not need to be toxic. We had a guy from Gaza in our office - he complained about informal emails sent to invite people for drinks because it was sinful, he complained about a manikin that got dressed up at special occasions because it was immodest. I don't know what lines to draw here - but be careful when playing with double-…

Makes me wonder if that particular individual would complain about a Pride Month email being "sinful". As a gay man I would refuse to work with someone like this.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#546

Post by oceanghost »

pengstrom wrote: post #544
RHSeeger wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Shaming all men for what a (bad) subset of men do is sexist. Shaming all white men for what a (bad) subset of white men do is sexist and racist. Shaming all black men because some black men are criminals is racist. Highlighting that the (good) majority should call out the (bad) minority is reasonable. Blaming the whole is not. It's true regardless of the target race, or sex, or gender, etc.

"Men" is both a social and biological differentiator. They are the only ones with power to stop this if they want to. We can play philosophy but reality is what it is. Sexism continues because men look the other way, not because women endure it.

Your view is completely toxic and you're a fool, a racist and a sexist.

As a white male-- I have no more control over society than anyone else. I have absolutely no power over these power structures that oppress us all.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#547

Post by mcguire »

908B64B197 wrote: post #365
mcguire wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. More so.

That doesn't align with most accounts of how computing was performed in the 50's and 60's. For instance, Knuth was seen as an anomaly because he would operate the keypunch as fast as the secretaries and would keypunch his own programs.

Programmers aren't and weren't keypunch operators. Or secretaries.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#548

Post by bonoboTP »

dougmwne wrote: post #504
the_doctah wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>On the other hand, "Unwilling to respect colleagues they wouldn't personally be friends with" is a valid reason to make a no-hire decision. And how would you come to that conclusion during an interview?

"Can you tell me about a time you didn't get along with a colleague and how you worked through that situation?" One of my go-to questions and often illuminating. A good answer I have heard somewhat often ends with, "Stupid Jerk was never my friend, but we figured out how to work together and produce value anyway."

Anyone who says things like "work together and produce value" is already suspicious to me.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#549

Post by sangnoir »

anilgulecha wrote: post #527
ranguna wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine if it's true, if not, why tell lies? Just tell them you don't like drinking. We organize the same kind of meetings over at where I work, and if someone says they don't like drinking, we tell them that water is fine, if they say they don't want to join for whatever or no reason, then we say fine and let them know that the meeting will be always open to them.

Isn't a better approach to pick types of meetings that don't have these outcast properties?

It's much easier to take the habits of early employees and call that "Company culture" without considering the reasoning or consequences. If Engineer #1 used to go on drinks on Wednesdays to cope with stress after the weekly release, 100 engineers later it becomes engrained as "company culture" to drink on Wednesdays at the same bar (which was on the way to his home) even though releases are now done on Thursdays and the bar is out of the way for most people.

Re: Video game developers at Activision Blizzard say they'll walk out Wednesday

#550

Post by 908B64B197 »

mcguire wrote: post #547
908B64B197 wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't align with most accounts of how computing was performed in the 50's and 60's. For instance, Knuth was seen as an anomaly because he would operate the keypunch as fast as the secretaries and would keypunch his own programs.

Programmers aren't and weren't keypunch operators. Or secretaries.

No, they would have been known as "computer operators" and still been counted in the "computer related occupations" bucket.
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