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A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

kleinbottle.com

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Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#541

Post by pbhjpbhj »

blairanderson wrote: post #379
CliffStoll wrote: post #116

Guess I'd better say a few things. First, I deeply appreciate that so many on Hacker News have come out for this. Enough to awaken me from a sound sleep on a Tuesday evening! I don't really care that much about selling Klein bottles over Amazon - it's mainly to reach parents over the holidays. But I do wish that Amazon would do something about this kind of thing. Finally, I"m very low on stocks of glass Klein bottles…

Hi Cliff, I'm an independent amazon consultant. Your Amazon problems would be solved with a regular USPTO trademark. They don't recognize common-law trademarks because they are heavily arguable in litigation. USPTO is a database of trademarks already scrutinized by trademark attorneys and government. It's not perfect, but it is a collection that Amazon recognizes. You can do this for $2000-ish and never think about i…

Do Amazon care about jurisdiction, UK registration is ~£200, perhaps any registered trademark will get you recognised by Amazon [in all jurisdictions]?

If someone is squatting one's trademark you can still sue them with an unregistered mark, and perhaps crucially if they're using Amazon then Amazon should be up for contributory infringement.

This is not legal advice and represents my personal views only.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#542

Post by CliffStoll »

lopis wrote: post #242
CliffStoll wrote: post #116

Guess I'd better say a few things. First, I deeply appreciate that so many on Hacker News have come out for this. Enough to awaken me from a sound sleep on a Tuesday evening! I don't really care that much about selling Klein bottles over Amazon - it's mainly to reach parents over the holidays. But I do wish that Amazon would do something about this kind of thing. Finally, I"m very low on stocks of glass Klein bottles…

So in 2015 [1] you said you ordered enough bottles for about 10 years, but you're already running out? That's quite the success story you have there! [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-k3mVnRlQLU

Lopis, you're right. Forward planning has never been my strong suit, and backward planning doesn't seem to work for me. There are some smart people in the world who can predict demand. Not me!

And, about twenty minutes ago, I ran out of large Klein bottles. It'll be September before I can get more, what with shortages of borosilicate glass.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#543

Post by ChuckMcM »

infogulch wrote: post #84
ChuckMcM wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly right. Watching Ebay and Amazon converge on being "Aliexpress" has really made me sad. I understand the folks who are measuring themselves by how effectively they promise quality and deliver crap to their customers. I understand their goal is maximum profit as their best score. And I understand that enough of the market doesn't care that it is crap that they prefer this over a quality good. Back when Walmart…

I don't know how this can be solved with regulation though. What is "superior" about the better product? Tolerances? Documentation? Customer service? The ineffable reflection of the divine? (...) As soon as you put a target on any of those measures Goodhart's law rears its ugly head. This strategy is like trying to grab a greased ball bearing with a pair of tweezers. The most efficient way for the customer to compare…

Regulating warranties and 'fitness for purpose' are both ways in which the state can enforce a level of quality/reliability on the manufacture of goods.

As an example, let's say your jurisdiction decides to make the following requirements on the manufacturers of food refrigerators;

1) The refrigerator must have a working lifetime of no less than 10 years from the date of sale, when maintained per the manual.

2) Repair parts for the refrigerator must be available for 20 years past the date of the last sale of the refrigerator to a resale outlet.

3) Information on the serviceability and repair of the refrigerator must be available to any party for a reasonable and non-discriminatory cost.

Those regulations say nothing about how much you can charge, how you manufacture it, or how you differentiate it from your competitors, they just make a requirement that the person who buys it can rely on it for 10 years and that if it breaks you must repair or replace it to give them the full 10 year lifetime they expected when they bought it.

What that does is force choices in design, manufacturing, and materials that reduce cost at the expense of expected lifetime back on to the manufacturer. As a result they gain no advantage by using cheaper stuff that fails more readily to get a cheaper price to "undercut" the guys who make the 10 year refrigerator.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#545

Post by pbhjpbhj »

throwawaycities wrote: post #514
blairanderson wrote: post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hi Cliff, I'm an independent amazon consultant. Your Amazon problems would be solved with a regular USPTO trademark. They don't recognize common-law trademarks because they are heavily arguable in litigation. USPTO is a database of trademarks already scrutinized by trademark attorneys and government. It's not perfect, but it is a collection that Amazon recognizes. You can do this for $2000-ish and never think about i…

I can save him the money…it would be highly unlikely the USPTO would grant a TM for “ACME Klein Bottle”. In either case, or even in the case the was a seller legitimately infringing on a valid trademark, Amazon should not be reassigning reviews from one sellers product to another seller under these types of matters. How in the hell would that be beneficial to Amazon shoppers?

Indeed, "Klein bottle" is not descriptive of the origin, it's descriptive of the type of goods. Trademarks indicate origin and must do so distinctively to be registered.

This post is my own view, not legal advice, and unrelated to my employment.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#546

Post by pbhjpbhj »

duxup wrote: post #371
fourseventy wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He should just sue for copyright infringement.

IIRC: Amazon won't tell him who it is and he suspects it's just someone out of legal reach / as the book is just self published his legal resources are pretty limited.

Amazon are selling it; if it's tortuously acquired he can sue them.

My opinion, not legal advice.

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#547

Post by CliffStoll »

IncRnd wrote: post #467
CliffStoll wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I posted (repeatedly) to Amazon Seller forum. Several people replied, but, alas, the suggestions were not of help. See: https://sellercentral.amazon.com/forums/t/product-page-hijac...

Were you able to contact a person through their live chat or call back links?

No, I was never able to contact a live person at Amazon.

However thanks to this Hacker News article, three Amazon employees have contacted me, with varying degrees of success.

  As of this moment (around 4PM Pacific time on Wednesday30 June), my listing has been 404'd ... I'm unsure if I will be able to recover the reviews if I rebuild it.  Or even if I can rebuild it.  

  Most of all - thank you to my friends on HN.  What a bright spot in an otherwise weird situation!

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#549

Post by CliffStoll »

chrisjc wrote: post #313
neom wrote: post #284

I had no clue what a Klein Bottle is, this video was very very very helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfhiVaJj9UY

I had no idea who Cliff was, as well as what a Klein Bottle was, but after watching this video I could watch him all day. I'd love to watch more short videos with him explaining things!

I still have no idea who Cliff is...

Re: A foreign seller has hijacked my Amazon Klein bottle listing

#550

Post by dragonwriter »

blairanderson wrote: post #379
CliffStoll wrote: post #116

Guess I'd better say a few things. First, I deeply appreciate that so many on Hacker News have come out for this. Enough to awaken me from a sound sleep on a Tuesday evening! I don't really care that much about selling Klein bottles over Amazon - it's mainly to reach parents over the holidays. But I do wish that Amazon would do something about this kind of thing. Finally, I"m very low on stocks of glass Klein bottles…

Hi Cliff, I'm an independent amazon consultant. Your Amazon problems would be solved with a regular USPTO trademark. They don't recognize common-law trademarks because they are heavily arguable in litigation. USPTO is a database of trademarks already scrutinized by trademark attorneys and government. It's not perfect, but it is a collection that Amazon recognizes. You can do this for $2000-ish and never think about i…

> USPTO is a database of trademarks

No the United States Patent and Trademark Office is not a database of trademarks.

It has one, though.

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