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“About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

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Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#541

Post by marcinzm »

digitaltrees wrote: post #504
jrochkind1 wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

bingo. I think they realized the boss didn't respect them and wouldn't tolerate dissent, and that therefore they didn't respect the boss. More than about "talking about politics at work".

So employees should be able to do raunchy stand up comedy about farts and sex then? Some topics are unprofessional in a work environment. Politics has become one of them.

The policy changes go far beyond banning politics or unprofessional behavior. Unless unprofessional is defined as anything which says anything negative about management directly or indirectly in any circumstance including yearly reviews.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#542

Post by RcouF1uZ4gsC »

ipaddr wrote: post #152

Interestingly the employees who left have the best career prospects. Entire iOS team, head of marketing and head of product team. The 6 months free money is hard for anyone entering a strong job market to pass up. A lot of comments seem to think 1/3 left because of the no politics policy. 1 / 3 left because it would increase their wealth or give them the summer covid took away last year. How many people would leave y…

> Interestingly the employees who left have the best career prospects

Maybe 5 years ago. Now it seems that a lot of tech companies see outspoken/activist employees as a liability, even if they are accomplished.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#543

Post by [deleted] »

kaitai wrote: post #302
koheripbal wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our experience when we issued our "No Politics / No Religion" policy at work was very positive. The few people who had an issue with it, subsequently quit or were terminated, and many of their co-workers actually thanked us afterwards for it. We didn't have to pay them to leave. One tried to use the company social media accounts to advance her politics, so we fired her, and the other person became frustrated that she…

Why not just... manage people well? No need to make it no politics/no religion at work. Endless talking about keto or veganism or BeachBody or CrossFit or vaccines or children or being anti-child or emacs or vim or whatever can be just as divisive and counterproductive if it's not managed . Lots of people are assholes or misinformed about a lot of stuff. Big deal. Manage. That's the active part of the word "manager".…

[deleted]

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#544

Post by digitaltrees »

grey-area wrote: post #530
digitaltrees wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. It’s about professionalism. Flame wars at work create a hostile environment where quiet voices are silenced. It’s the same reason HN bans political flame wars.

I think most would agree more professionalism would be nice, in fact getting rid of a list of funny customer names (as employees suggested) would be more professional, not less. But again, that's not really what the core disagreement is here - that's not IMO why people are quitting - it sounds like most of the company agrees that is a good idea. They are quitting because the founders decided to assert their power nak…

None of this is how companies or teams work. Rules are not created through negotiations, at some point a leader makes a decision.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#545

Post by x0x0 »

sircastor wrote: post #427
JauntTrooper wrote: post #28

They offered a severance of 6 months salary if you've worked there for 3+ years... I would be tempted by that offer regardless of any other circumstances, especially in today's competitive jobs market.

Four words come to my mind: “United States Healthcare System” Even with an amazing buyout like this, I feel like you have to be in that relatively narrow space of “no spouse, no kids, good health, pretty young” to be able to walk away from health insurance.

cobra is free for them -- per the covid bill. through 30 sept

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#547

Post by ThrustVectoring »

mhneu wrote: post #290
grumblestumble wrote: post #89

A lot of the conversation from the "no politics at work" crowd here is centered around "these folks were wasting company time and losing productivity protesting this". That entirely misses the point. The loss of productivity around this issue is entirely on the leadership team. They let this fester - they were complicit in allowing this dumb-ass list to be circulated around the company for years, and when it became a…

“We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” -Elie Wiesel Choosing to not discuss politics is fine. But if you do that, you’re making a choice: you’re choosing to take the side of those who prefer political decisions to be made by a small elite, without feedback from people like us. You’re choosing not to weigh in.

Causality is backwards here. Which side is oppressed and which is the victim is a deeply political question; speaking out takes the side of victims because the widespread political support builds the shared understanding that their victimhood exists.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#548

Post by wokwokwok »

christophilus wrote: post #425
mhneu wrote: post #290

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“We must take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” -Elie Wiesel Choosing to not discuss politics is fine. But if you do that, you’re making a choice: you’re choosing to take the side of those who prefer political decisions to be made by a small elite, without feedback from people like us. You’re choosing not to weigh in.

Nope. You can still discuss politics over beers. Over barbecue. Over the phone on your own time. At your favorite place to volunteer. At your grocery store... Just please don’t do it where others are trapped having to hear you without any way out.

If you don’t want to hear opinions, work with robots not people.

Seriously, I get it, being ranted at sucks, but your a human, they’re a human, just say “I’m not really interested” and walk away.

Relying on company policy for this is a strange offloading of your personal social responsibility and relationships.

I understand and appreciate some work cultures are toxic, but I think it’s fair to expect people to taking a bit of personal responsibility for interacting like a normal person too.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#549

Post by jessaustin »

digitaltrees wrote: post #502
madeofpalk wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It cannot be understated just how great the two leaders think they are. For the entirety of their career they've been literally telling everyone else they're running their company the wrong way. They thought this was just another instance of them having a stroke of thoughtleadership brilliance and everyone else is wrong.

No. They have just presented an alternative so others have a point of validation if they want to not be on a hyper path to unicorn billions.

They have also done that, but unfortunately their more recent actions will totally obscure that fine example for the foreseeable future.

Re: “About one-third of Basecamp employees accepted buyouts today”

#550

Post by shkkmo »

roenxi wrote: post #498
andkon wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of their iOS devs who left has been incredibly vocal about how he no longer felt like this was somewhere he could work because of this policy and its effects, so I think you're plainly wrong (or insisting that there's no way we could take a person at their word). https://twitter.com/georgeclaghorn It's a lot more likely that the 1/3rd that left both left because they were unhappy with the policy, and because they…

> 6 months free money is not as much as you'd think; a new job hunt takes 3, even for talented, in-demand people. That still looks like 3 months free money. That is a considerable offer no matter a person's politics. Occam's razor is most of the people who left did so because they didn't like management, because that is the normal reason people leave jobs. However, it is very noticeable that if someone was looking fo…

Occam's Razor is not an appropriate tool to make the point you are trying to make.
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