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Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

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Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#541

Post by jjkaczor »

hyko wrote: post #140

When will introverts realise that their working conditions are being dictated to them by extroverts? The pandemic-driven remote working is hell for some people, and unfortunately they call the shots. I don’t mind coming into your office now and again (there’s a special dimension to IRL connections), but the reason I don’t want to work there full time is that it’s crap for knowledge work. I outspend you by 10x per hea…

In my remote office (which used to be at home, but is now a private, non-shared rented space), I have an ergonomic split keyboard that costs probably 6x a 'standard' one , I have 78" of screen real estate, split across 3 monitors, I have an Aeron chair (used, but worth every penny), my internet connection is completely dedicated to me and is business-class cable with LTE failover.

Typically, as a contract consultant, working onsite would have me provided a 13" cheap crap-top (my personal laptop has 32gb of RAM and 2tb of SSD in a RAID config), and then stick me in the worst "half-cubicle/half-storage/supply closet" that none of their employees would ever sit in.

Even then, there would be a non-stop stream of people dropping by, and/or "shoulder-taps".

And I am a weird introvert/extrovert - so I love in-person meetings, whiteboarding and training/speaking sessions. But I also love the quiet, uninterrupted time in a decent work environment to actually... "get stuff done".

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#542

Post by levosmetalo »

dudul wrote: post #410
levosmetalo wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Absolutely - in knowledge economy, insisting on physical presence is darn damn stupid. Insisting on presence is the only reason knowledge workers in western countries can claim income they have right now. Because in knowledge economy without insisting on presence, there is absolutely no reason to pay a westerner more for the same job that can be done by someone in India, China, East Europe or Africa. Unless you can…

The big wave of outsourcing in 2000s was a disaster. This is not just about knowledge. It is also about cultural differences that are sometimes more limiting than not having face to face time. It is about timezone differences that make it hard to have calls or meetings.

The reason cultural difference was an issue is one dominant culture enforced by presence culture. Without presence culture there would be no dominant company culture, it would be more distributed around the world. Also, timezones don't make it hard to have meetings, it's the same culture preventing it to happen. In my current company I sit in Europe, and it's easier for me to find a time slot for a meeting with my US and India-based colleagues than with people sitting in the same building with me.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#543

Post by andrewzah »

izacus wrote: post #379
irq wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just in terms of reduced CO2 emissions due to fewer people commuting because they can work from home, and the impact this has on climate change, he is correctly speaking for all of us, if by all of us you mean life on Earth.

If that's the main driver, then instead of forced WFH, let's do a blanket ban of cars. Not just commute to work, but force people to stay at home at all times. After all, we're ignoring all the other effects here right?

Tackling climate change is a step at a time. First, we support WFH. Then, we can move on to other things.

And yes- I would like to see a total ban on gas guzzling cars in my lifetime. I would like to see cities built around walkability, and ban all types of cars entirely in the city center. Etc. But it's a step by step process.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#544

Post by prions »

As someone whose been in an awfully designed office at a "thrifty" company, I can't imagine how returning to that office would be a gain for me.

I was put in a row of desks literally next to the open kitchen/conversation area. My day had constant distractions and I had no control over how I wanted my work environment to be.

Working from home, I'm incredibly comfortable AND productive. The noise level, lighting, etc are all how I choose them. I dont have this tension around other people getting to decide for me how I want to work.

If you work in a FAANG type of office environment, the above probably doesn't apply to you. Your office is professionally designed and cost many millions of dollars. You are given high quality equipment to make you comfortable. Your office has amenities that make being there easier.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#545

Post by andrewzah »

eertami wrote: post #265
disgruntledphd2 wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing, right. The problem isn't remote or office per se, it's the commute to and from the office that's the issue. I can definitely focus more at home, but I really miss my 30 minute bike commute.

>I really miss my 30 minute bike commute. I've seen this argument before, and I don't understand how working from home changes this honestly. Why not just start your day with a bike ride for leisure? Unbound by the location of your office you can now cycle to any arbitrary location. If you struggle to do it without a reason, perhaps cycle to a bakery or store and pickup some fresh food for the day.

If it's not a necessity, it's hard for people to maintain habits, particularly physical ones. The reality is many people are just not very disciplined if there's not an outside factor forcing them into it.

There are many comments here about missing their commutes as they could meditate/reflect on things, etc. One can quite easily do this with meditation or walking/running/biking for ~30 mins. However it takes discipline to carve out that 30 mins and leave it specifically for meditation or whatever.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#546

Post by scurvy »

bluefirebrand wrote: post #488
JamesSwift wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its extremely rare for someone to just open your closed door at the office. Its a daily occurrence at home.

If you have a door you can close at the office you must be upper management. Everyone else is still in cubes if they are lucky or in open seating plans more likely.

The larger tech companies give everyone an office. Microsoft started the trend back in the 80's.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#547

Post by andrewzah »

prions wrote: post #544

As someone whose been in an awfully designed office at a "thrifty" company, I can't imagine how returning to that office would be a gain for me. I was put in a row of desks literally next to the open kitchen/conversation area. My day had constant distractions and I had no control over how I wanted my work environment to be. Working from home, I'm incredibly comfortable AND productive. The noise level, lighting, etc a…

"Your office is professionally designed and cost many millions of dollars. You are given high quality equipment to make you comfortable. Your office has amenities that make being there easier. "

My house is nice, and is custom-tailored to me. The amenities are exactly the amenities I want and use. The equipment is exactly what I want, not equipment that a distant person contracted out to a firm to mass produce for a general office.

I understand that not every person is in a situation like this, but if you're working at a FAANG you should be making enough money to set up your living situation nicely.

People should have the -option- to come into an office. Working at home gets lonely. But there is no reason that a FAANG is necessarily better or even good at providing an optimal work environment.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#548

Post by KptMarchewa »

kmlx wrote: post #309
gfxgirl wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree completely. All metrics at my company, gamedev, show throughput is down ~66% since WFH Me, I want to go back to the office. Like hanging out with my work friends.

same for my clients. the drop in productivity was huge and forced some of them to start letting people go. and all of these companies are now asking their employees back to the office full time in a week or so. i am sure that if productivity hadn't dropped during WFH then there wouldn't be such a big issue. but when the whole company stops producing, then it's pretty clear what needs to be done...

    the drop in productivity was huge and forced some of them to start letting people go.
To drop productivity even more?

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#549

Post by DharmaPolice »

biztos wrote: post #419
lentil_soup wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I cannot recommend a co-working space enough. My life improved so much since working from a co-working. I looked for a place that shared my work/life style and I've made friends, we share lunch, we've gone on trips, we usually share a friday drink, etc. And since everyone works on different things and/or companies it's quite interesting as well to get some other input that's not just work colleagues. I also looked fo…

One potentially tricky thing is that larger companies may have rules against co-working. My last BigCo employer had a lot of WFH (as exceptions and due to acquisitions or site closures, the overall policy was butts in seats, but still). If you actually read the security policies, you saw lots of things that would make co-working de facto a fireable offense. But I doubt it was ever enforced, and I bet a lot of people…

Not saying I agree but I can see some logic in that kind of restriction. If you're in a traditional office most of the information you work with will be accessible (to some extent) to those around you and either way, they can be held to account as employees. If you're in a purely public location you're likely to be quite guarded about who has view of your screen and maybe you will avoid working on anything sensitive. But in a shared space it's potentially the worst of both worlds - you might be comfortable / friendly with those near you, but they have zero legal relationship with your employer.

Re: Google is accelerating reopening of offices and putting limits on remote work

#550

Post by bluefirebrand »

JamesSwift wrote: post #493
bluefirebrand wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have a door you can close at the office you must be upper management. Everyone else is still in cubes if they are lucky or in open seating plans more likely.

OK, then change it to "someone tapping you on the shoulder while you are wearing headphones at your desk at work is rare".

Please tell me these wonderful non-distracting workplaces you've worked at because you are speaking absolute fiction to my ears.
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