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Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

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Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#541

Post by golergka »

jancsika wrote: post #393
igorkraw wrote: post #223

I'm a bit sad about how eager everyone is jumping on the idea that "candid advice" will always be construed as possibly sexist. I'm from Germany and we are famously blunt, so maybe there is a cultural aspect to this, but to me candor != risk of sexism. If your advice is candid, it also shouldn't leave any ambiguity..."I'm unsure about you doing the pitch because the last N times you froze up and you seem nervous agai…

If I'm sexist then I could choose to make such a remark only if it happens to be a female colleague. If male then sleep(). Sexism achieved. If you're not from the U.S. you have to understand the background of mendacity that flows through nearly the entire culture. That's a big part of the backdrop for fairly deep levels of distrust, whether it's of a company, one's colleague, the gov't, etc. For example-- I was watch…

> did the guest believe that global warming was real and that human activity has contributed to this global warming?

That's not a good yes or no question, because it not only unites two different points together, but also really depends on your definition of global warming, and also ties a lot of other different issues into it. You could for example believe that humanity affects climate to some extent, but still think that it's not bad enough to support environmentalists from economics point of view. You could also believe that this climate change is real, but is not caused by human activity and is just a part of a natural process.

I just don't think that boxing a complex issue into a boolean is a good idea.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#542

Post by godelski »

to1y wrote: post #534
godelski wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fear based actions can still be sexist though. We're talking about treating people different based on their sex. Let's draw a parallel. Most people would consider crossing the street because there is a black man walking towards you as a racist action. Sure, not burning a cross in their lawn racist, but racist nonetheless (it's a spectrum). I would argue that people that do this do so because they are afraid of said b…

So you're a sexist if you do, you're a sexist if you don't?

I know you are being funny but this response does not feel like it was done in good faith (I may be misreading). A major part of my point is that there is a spectrum. "Damned if you do, damned if you don't" is often a false equivalence because it suggests that the two options are equally as bad. Intention must play a large role in how we're determining how to respond because someone with good intentions has a higher likelihood of improving/fixing their behavior than someone who does not have good intentions. But intention is substantially harder to determine. My comment is about fighting back against this binary sensationalization, which I believe you are perpetuating even with the joke.

So no, you aren't damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#543

Post by dkersten »

herval wrote: post #539
dkersten wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-minority person, I often see people just being assholes. For example, some dominating dude who talks over everyone, who ignores others input, who takes credit for everything, etc. As a white male, when I encounter that behavior, I think to myself, wow, that guy is a fucking asshole. However, and I have experienced this, people who are in a minority often take it personally, that they're an asshole to them ,…

Why would you say something to defend the asshole? In your example, you interpreted the same - the guy was an asshole. Why give them a pass? In most cases I hear of people that claim they’re afraid of giving “candid feedback” to a minority, it’s almost always the case that the person is an asshole when giving feedback IN GENERAL as well. Maybe evaluating your general behavior first, before going all scared of this or…

> Why would you say something to defend the asshole?

I wouldn't, I'm not sure how you took that from my comment. I'm saying if I defend my group (eg "not all white males are like that" or "that wasn't sexism, he was doing the same to everyone") it often (in my personal experience) gets interpreted as defending the asshole, by going against the claim of sexism/racism/whatever.

In my personal experience, the chances of any comments on the situation getting misinterpreted as negative are too high. Either you get accused of denying the sexism is real (ignoring that you got treated the same way by the assholes), or you get accused of "well actually...". Sure, sometimes people understand, but the risk is real.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#544

Post by downandout »

downandout wrote: post #502

Anyone who is pragmatic and willing to take open and honest advice/criticism from people they respect needs to advertise themselves that way in today’s environment. It is on the entrepreneur to convince the person from whom they are seeking advice that they will not regret giving it. As an alternative, perhaps investors should offer an optional “advice NDA” that would allow them to speak more freely, with less fear o…

For the (at least) 2 people that downvoted this: what part of this comment is controversial or offends you? I don’t see it, and I would love to understand. Downvoting without comment does no good for anyone.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#545

Post by Decker87 »

godelski wrote: post #526
Thorentis wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is described in the article isn't sexism - it's fear. Fear of being labeled as a sexist.

Fear based actions can still be sexist though. We're talking about treating people different based on their sex. Let's draw a parallel. Most people would consider crossing the street because there is a black man walking towards you as a racist action. Sure, not burning a cross in their lawn racist, but racist nonetheless (it's a spectrum). I would argue that people that do this do so because they are afraid of said b…

I disagree with this definition of sexism.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#546

Post by oblio »

awb wrote: post #504
dageshi wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Genuine question, if you were a man in that situation, what would you do?

You give the honest feedback. We won’t progress as a society by being afraid.

What's good for society might not be good for the individual.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#547

Post by terminal_object »

daenz wrote: post #505

There's a dark irony to the idea that the defenses against sexism (standing up and calling people out) are also causing an unintended secondary sexism by discouraging equal treatment out of fear of accusations. I've held the belief that if a someone can't recognize and clearly identify the differences between criticism based on merits and criticism based on bias, then there is no point attempting to do "what they wan…

It's not really that strange, since these defences are very blunt and inaccurate to begin with. Sexism is seldom clearly identifiable, even by its victims. How can you really tell if criticism you are receiving is sexist and not bona fide? The answer is in many contexts you simply cannot.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#548

Post by scarmig »

A female founder acquaintance of mine (who's quite smart and capable) went on a Twitter screed a couple weeks ago. As it turns out, someone else had copied her idea, and her startup now had a competitor. The competitor was also able to raise a solid amount of money despite her being first to market and her having more relevant knowledge of the problem space (by her own estimation).

So, this scenario isn't exactly uncommon in the startup world. It happens all the time. But because she's a minority female and her competitor is a white man, it suddenly becomes an example of white supremacy and the patriarchy conspiring to oppress her. The VCs who funded the competitor? Obviously racists and sexists, and she called them out explicitly as that on Twitter.

I considered reaching out to her to offer some perspective, but ultimately demurred. Why? I didn't want to be caught in the wurlitzer. Better to let her make more problems for herself than offer a sense of perspective that could get me cancelled.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#549

Post by mdoms »

herval wrote: post #539
dkersten wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a non-minority person, I often see people just being assholes. For example, some dominating dude who talks over everyone, who ignores others input, who takes credit for everything, etc. As a white male, when I encounter that behavior, I think to myself, wow, that guy is a fucking asshole. However, and I have experienced this, people who are in a minority often take it personally, that they're an asshole to them ,…

Why would you say something to defend the asshole? In your example, you interpreted the same - the guy was an asshole. Why give them a pass? In most cases I hear of people that claim they’re afraid of giving “candid feedback” to a minority, it’s almost always the case that the person is an asshole when giving feedback IN GENERAL as well. Maybe evaluating your general behavior first, before going all scared of this or…

You missed the point by a very wide margin.

Re: Female Founder Secrets: Men Clamming Up

#550

Post by grumple »

This is a problem that extends far beyond the man to woman relationship. Intellectual mindshare is being locked up due to cancel culture and the fear that unpopular ideas - whether objectively true or not - or even just poor wording could be weaponized and used to attack the person expressing them.

If you think this isn't happening, I challenge you to think of a single unpopular thing that you believe and ask yourself if you'd be comfortable expressing that attached to your real name in a permanently recorded medium.

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