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Bitcoin Is Time

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Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#541

Post by [deleted] »

ballofrubber wrote: post #194
boringg wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Um transaction costs alone make it not the best use of money. It isn't widely used for goods that you would want to use on a day to day basis / the transaction costs of using it / energy use for bitcoin are some of the low hanging counters to why it isn't the best form of widely used currency. Are those things that can change over time? Certainly - but it hasn't happened yet.

These low hanging counters have been discussed over a lot. Transaction cost is pretty low in multiple views: - You can globally settle billions of dollars worth of bitcoin for less than 10$ [0] - FIAT Settlements between banks is a complicated and non-auditable process, which is internationally speaking also very slow - You can build layers on top of bitcoin, i.e. the Lightning Network or liquid, which reduces transa…

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#542

Post by fredfoobar »

glitchc wrote: post #538
fredfoobar wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been saying the same damn thing about automobiles man, horses already have self driving even! and they don't pollute like cars. Look at the mess we're in now! who's laughing?? Cars pollute and need roads, we had to build so many roads and gas stations. We even had to go to war to make sure we have enough oil.

As much as it's funny, this is a false analogy. Horses don't travel as fast as cars, or as far. They also can't pull/carry as much as a car, let alone a truck. How many horses are needed to carry the same load as one 18 wheeler? Would Amazon be possible without trucks? How about Walmart?

Nice, I just want you to keep going in that line of thought and be consistent everywhere. Fingers crossed.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#543

Post by byset »

anthropodie wrote: post #370
boredpandas777 wrote: post #348

Let me fix that title. Happy to be downvoted into negative territory. I only have 11 points. Go ahead. "Bitcoin Is A Waste of Time (and Resources)" What Bitcoin has done is that it taught people they can come together in a sustained flash mob (like an on-the-fly hedge fund operation) and manipulate the price of speculative assets by creating artificial short-term pump-n-dump type demand. Bitcoin has trained our colle…

> Happy to be downvoted into negative territory. I see another comment on top doing the same. Why do people start with this? If you don't bother you should not even brought that up. Seems like an underhanded way of getting more points. Do people even fall for this?

given how much HN hates bitcoin, it's curious that anyone would assume anti-bitcoin boilerplate would get downvoted here

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#544

Post by hannasanarion »

fredfoobar wrote: post #373
boredpandas777 wrote: post #348

Let me fix that title. Happy to be downvoted into negative territory. I only have 11 points. Go ahead. "Bitcoin Is A Waste of Time (and Resources)" What Bitcoin has done is that it taught people they can come together in a sustained flash mob (like an on-the-fly hedge fund operation) and manipulate the price of speculative assets by creating artificial short-term pump-n-dump type demand. Bitcoin has trained our colle…

I've been saying the same damn thing about automobiles man, horses already have self driving even! and they don't pollute like cars. Look at the mess we're in now! who's laughing?? Cars pollute and need roads, we had to build so many roads and gas stations. We even had to go to war to make sure we have enough oil.

This is accidentally a good analogy.

Because yes, cars have made the world materially worse, not because horses are better, but because dense urban development, public transit, walking, and cycling is better.

Cars are enormously wasteful, much like bitcoin is, not only because it uses way more energy than is necessary for the task it is performing (~90% of the energy used by cars is spent to move the car, not the cargo or people), but also because it takes up space that could be used for more useful things: the average American city has 8 parking spaces per car, that means that each car on the road represents an entire ~1600sqft house that can't be built because a car needs places to park.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#545

Post by FlyingSnake »

fredfoobar wrote: post #373
boredpandas777 wrote: post #348

Let me fix that title. Happy to be downvoted into negative territory. I only have 11 points. Go ahead. "Bitcoin Is A Waste of Time (and Resources)" What Bitcoin has done is that it taught people they can come together in a sustained flash mob (like an on-the-fly hedge fund operation) and manipulate the price of speculative assets by creating artificial short-term pump-n-dump type demand. Bitcoin has trained our colle…

I've been saying the same damn thing about automobiles man, horses already have self driving even! and they don't pollute like cars. Look at the mess we're in now! who's laughing?? Cars pollute and need roads, we had to build so many roads and gas stations. We even had to go to war to make sure we have enough oil.

I almost typed a snarky remark, but then realized that you make a valid point with that analogy. However the analogy feels a little weak to me:

> We even had to go to war to make sure we have enough oil

I don't see countries going to war over BTC (or the mining pool) as they already have cornered all the fiat currencies in a tight system. All they could do is sabotage the BTC system and make it less lucrative for normal public.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#546

Post by zachkatz »

omginternets wrote: post #526
fredfoobar wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finally, I'm being recognized for my wisdom. Thank you for your kind words.

I second this. I was poised to dismiss your comment as facetiousness, and then suddenly realized that you are exactly correct. Why indeed should we prefer cars over horses for most (but of course not all) applications? Aren't we as technologists always preaching the benefits of technological conservatism, minimalism and simplicity? Our environment has obviously changed in such a way that it's now difficult to re-intr…

E-bikes are the new horses.

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#547

Post by byset »

Igelau wrote: post #428
anthropodie wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Happy to be downvoted into negative territory. I see another comment on top doing the same. Why do people start with this? If you don't bother you should not even brought that up. Seems like an underhanded way of getting more points. Do people even fall for this?

For most other topics, I'd probably agree. In the case of crypto currencies it's important to point out that you'd rather hear compelling counterarguments rather than the all too frequent "You're right but I wish you weren't" downvotes.

wow, can you teach me how to read minds?

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#548

Post by fredfoobar »

hannasanarion wrote: post #544
fredfoobar wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been saying the same damn thing about automobiles man, horses already have self driving even! and they don't pollute like cars. Look at the mess we're in now! who's laughing?? Cars pollute and need roads, we had to build so many roads and gas stations. We even had to go to war to make sure we have enough oil.

This is accidentally a good analogy. Because yes, cars have made the world materially worse, not because horses are better, but because dense urban development, public transit, walking, and cycling is better. Cars are enormously wasteful, much like bitcoin is, not only because it uses way more energy than is necessary for the task it is performing (~90% of the energy used by cars is spent to move the car, not the car…

"accidentally"

Do you always feel superior to other people? or is it just today?

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#549

Post by perfect_kiss »

omginternets wrote: post #526
fredfoobar wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Finally, I'm being recognized for my wisdom. Thank you for your kind words.

I second this. I was poised to dismiss your comment as facetiousness, and then suddenly realized that you are exactly correct. Why indeed should we prefer cars over horses for most (but of course not all) applications? Aren't we as technologists always preaching the benefits of technological conservatism, minimalism and simplicity? Our environment has obviously changed in such a way that it's now difficult to re-intr…

In Europe, there are not much cities that were designed for automobiles. Most down town designs predate automobiles by several centuries. That is why traffic congestion, and related externalities, are very significant problem for Europe, much more than for US. During several last years, there had emerged a movement when large cities introduce anti-car rules, effectively banning traffic in the most affected areas.

Some recent reporting on it from NatGeo:

https://www.nationalgeographic.co.uk/travel/2021/02/six-euro...

Re: Bitcoin Is Time

#550

Post by superbcarrot »

gnrlst wrote: post #210

I'm ready to be downvoted to oblivion, especially by all the Bitcoin purists, but I hope my message sparks at least some curiosity. Bitcoin is getting "weaker" every year for several reasons: - emerging centralization due to economies of scale. If this trend continues the mining power will be so consolidated that a 51% attack will be likely. The Nakamoto coefficient is already at 4, and tending towards 3. - energy us…

The sibling comments show just how difficult it is to talk constructively about these things even at a place like HN. I have no idea about the technical merits of Nano but the emotionally charged reactions with little argumentation aren't helping anyone. Is there a place online where people actually discusss cryptocurrencies on a technical/economic merit? That kind of discussion certainly isn't happening on reddit, and sadly not on HN either.
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