Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers • Hacker News Board

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#541

Post by seneca » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 1:53 AM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #257

That is the most depressing part for me - how easily American society is scared into giving up their freedom ideals. Turns out they don't have to be threatened with overwhelming force. They don't need to be threatened with death, starvation or torture. They don't need to be threatened by economic ruin or untold suffering. No, the richest and most safe civilization ever existed on the face of the planet is ready to gi…

> No, the richest and most safe civilization ever existed on the face of the planet is ready to give up on freedom because of TV picture and a bunch of talking heads on TV and Twitter that told them there was an "insurrection" (nothing of the sort happened of course) and it's time to panic now

I must say, it's reassuring to read someone else saying this. This whole ordeal is perhaps the largest tempest in a teapot in history, and it's shocking to me how many people are buying it.

The ability for politically motivated coordinated propaganda to control the zeitgeist in the modern world is, however, quite horrifying.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#542

Post by NicoJuicy » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 1:53 AM UTC

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

The problem was mostly in having an incompetent leader that spreads propaganda.

The influence of a man in the seat can not be ignored and never will.

But as every problem the society will encounter, the most important thing is adapting so this can not happen again.

Eg. The spread of "fake news" was more profitable and cheaper than real news is one issue that should be addressed.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#543

Post by tbodt » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 1:55 AM UTC

cheeze wrote: post #325

imglorp wrote: post #153

We're also at the point now where you have to ask which cloud is deplatforming a site. (edit, and their state alignment) Case in point, Russia is now routing Parler traffic. https://twitter.com/VickerySec/status/1351227537985318929?s=... https://twitter.com/dtemkin/status/1351240721261584385?s=20 (edit)

Doesn't look like traffic is being routed through Russia, as the first tweet implies. They are using DDOS-Guard, which routes over Telia. In my (US) traceroute, traffic never leaves the states

That tweet is not accurate, but DDOS-Guard is a Russian firm according to https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/01/hamas-may-be-threat-to-8...

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#544

Post by girvo » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 1:55 AM UTC

emphatizer2000 wrote: post #498

bilbo0s wrote: post #360

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they're scared because people like the ones who stormed the capitol, would happily kill any of them without a second thought. The attackers were completely under the influence of their propaganda. The depressing thing is that while you may share some beliefs with that side of the political spectrum, these are not the kind of people who will be reasonable when they come for 'nonbelievers' in the night. That sh…

"would happily kill any of them without a second thought" Bullshit

They killed a police officer, and savagely beat others. What makes you think they wouldn’t extend that to others?

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#545

Post by bsder » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 1:56 AM UTC

lisper wrote: post #11

I gotta say, recent events have left me shaken to my core. I thought I believed in free speech, to the point where I started a company dedicated to providing privacy and communications products that were not subject to control by any central authority (that turns out to be very hard!) But watching the events of the past few years unfold I am no longer convinced that this would really make the world a better place. I…

Let me try to talk you down a bit.

The real problem is that those with money and agenda can create a platform that is difficult for truthful free speech to compete against.

Whether it's Fox News, Republicans and the Capitol Riot or The Sun/Times, Murdoch and Brexit, the fact that the rich have a megaphone that outcompetes truthful free speech is a problem.

So, my question to you is: how do we amplify truth via free speech against these malicious agents?

Unfortunately, I don't know the answer to that question.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#546

Post by owlbynight » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 1:56 AM UTC

I've been on the Internet since before it had pictures. Hosts have always had this power. It's not new. It's not free speech. You pay for a service, you adhere to their rules. You break their rules, you get booted.

This argument is a dog whistle defense of terrorism.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#547

Post by ganoushoreilly » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 1:56 AM UTC

stolen_biscuit wrote: post #534

ganoushoreilly wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would have happened if any of the riots this past year escalated to violence because of heavy handed actions of the "left". In fact, we know what happened, death and destruction. Why is this not viewed in the same way? It's a complete attack on our country and government, but was somehow sanctioned?

Because people rioting over centuries of racial abuse and systematic racially motivated murder at the hands of policeman is not the same thing as storming your nations capitol because you don't like the results of a free and fair election

Oh so lets scream ACAB, remove our police, allow crime to grow and that will fix things? How many of the protests / riots were started in response to a police shooting and then months later it is clearer that the use of force was justified?

I was 100% onboard with reformation of policing, increasing training, and the likes. When rioters attacked small business, used strong arm tactics to establish autonomous zones in us Cities, burned down police stations, attacked innocent bystanders.. etc.. you lost my empathy.

I'm 100% for equality, I'm 100% for people loving whome ever they want. You have my support. But when the demonization of anyone that doesn't 100% toe the line becomes standard you lose me and a large portion of America.

Both sides are going crazy and until both sides acknowledge that, it's only going to get worse. Media and big tech taking these actions will escalate not de-escalate.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#548

Post by NicoJuicy » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 1:56 AM UTC

throwaway894345 wrote: post #480

slg wrote: post #438

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't believe this needs to be said, but the fact it failed doesn't mean the danger wasn't real. Some members of the mob were actively looking to kill the people who were 2nd and 3rd in line for the presidency. Let's not pretend that there was zero danger to democracy.

> I can't believe this needs to be said, but the fact it failed doesn't mean the danger wasn't real. The danger is unreal not because it failed, but because it was obviously going to fail. We're talking about a bunch of delusional LARPers. If some foreign intelligence unit tries and fails to overthrow your country's government, that's insurrection. If it's the doofus who stole the podium or the guy with face paint an…

> The danger is unreal not because it failed, but because it was obviously going to fail.

Being 1 door away from where they were hiding seems a pretty close call imo

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#549

Post by ineptech » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 1:57 AM UTC

smsm42 wrote: post #257

That is the most depressing part for me - how easily American society is scared into giving up their freedom ideals. Turns out they don't have to be threatened with overwhelming force. They don't need to be threatened with death, starvation or torture. They don't need to be threatened by economic ruin or untold suffering. No, the richest and most safe civilization ever existed on the face of the planet is ready to gi…

I'm surprised such a condescending comment is still visible. Parler didn't go dark because your outgroup "abandoned their ideals", it went dark because a bunch of for-profit companies don't want to do business with them, because doing so would lead to a loss in revenue. Sucks for them, but not a free speech issue.

Re: Parler’s de-platforming shows the exceptional power of cloud providers

#550

Post by ABeeSea » Tue, Jan 19, 2021, 2:02 AM UTC

jessedhillon wrote: post #456

jldugger wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People marched into the capitol with handguns, zip ties, and an intent to award the presidency to the loser. I'm not waiting for someone to actually succeed before I declare them insurrectionists, and I don't know why you want to minimize the threats made against Congress, which did not stop that day: https://lawandcrime.com/u-s-capitol-siege/no-bail-for-qanon-... If you want to compare it to something, I would recom…

> an intent to award the presidency to the loser How would they have done that? Nobody would listen to a bunch of hooligans pronouncing orders from the House rostrum. In a coup, someone like a general is waiting to hear the signal to throw in with the coup leaders, providing actual institutional power to the usurpers. There was no institutional power behind these people -- do you think some general at Andrews was wai…

>How would they have done that?

Kill enough congress members so the election can’t be certified. Elect Trump speaker of the house (speaker doesn’t need to be a member of congress). Since the election wasn’t certified, the constitution declares the speaker (now Trump) becomes President on the 20th.