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Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

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Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#541
post #12

Irrelevant. Most of the original users of /r/theDonald migrated theDonald.win, which became one of the top websites in the US in terms of traffic. They're behind Cloudflare and constantly DDoSd these days it seems like it. Moreover, they've gotten threats from their ISP that they have to delete certain posts or be shut down. (which seems scary to me) Also, please don't judge me, I just have a morbid curiosity to see…

> please don't judge me I'll say it out loud: though I despise Trump and mourn the damage he and those enabling have caused, I spend more time online looking at pro-Trump, conservative and Republican focused material than anything else. I downvote none of it, even the legit crazy/scary stuff, and in the rare cases I comment, it's carefully worded to be neutral or even sometimes conciliatory, though always honest. It…

Well said. It is hard work too.

Quality post. Thanks for it.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#542

https://www.mtsu.edu/first-amendment/article/896/censorship > In general, sedition is defined as trying to overthrow the government with intent and means to bring it about; the Supreme Court, however, has been divided over what constitutes intent and means. > These acts made it a federal crime to speak, write, or print criticisms of the government that were false, scandalous, or malicious. It is frightening to me tha…

>Their sources include the content of speeches made by the President of the United States, news anchors and journalists of conversatively-biased news, and perhaps most importantly, peers they trust liking and sharing those same speeches and articles with them as a stamp of acceptance.

Their sources also include the statements and behaviors of news anchors and journalists and politicians and political activists and others with a left-leaning bias (and to a lesser extent right-leaning figures that opposed Trump, e.g. Bush, Romney, McCain). For the past 5 years, the only major position on the left is that Trump is a grave threat to our democracy and to the lives and well-being of nearly everyone on this earth. Rightly or wrongly, they have accused him of being a Russian asset, being elected thanks to (perhaps welcomed) foreign interference in the election, cruelly separating children from their parents at the border, causing the deaths of hundreds of thousands due to negligence in handling a pandemic, inciting racial hatred, disenfranchising voters, ignoring or exacerbating the climate crisis when we have little time to spare in addressing it, misusing his power, attempting to take away health care from millions, attempting to set back womens' rights, and so on. See [1] for a recent example.

The rhetoric and actions of the left (and anti-Trump right) leave no room for doubt in the mind of Trump supporters that the left would do nearly anything to get Trump out of power, including cheating in the election (and that anti-Trump republicans would be happy to see it happen). How could they justify not doing so, if they truly believe the things I listed above? Do they believe the threat to democracy posed by cheating in the election is greater than the threat to democracy posed by Trump ruling for another 4 years? Does it compare to the magnitude of destruction already wrought against our people and our planet as a result of the 2016 election loss? If not cheating makes a repeat of 2016 more likely, how could they justify running the election fairly?

Add to that the undisputed pandemic-related restrictions put in place on election observers, and tell me how the right could possibly believe anything else.

The lack of smoking gun physical evidence is not convincing when the relevant materials are under the control of the very people that are believed to have done the crime, and they are not forthcoming with providing access to them.

[1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25688158

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#543
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same. I've long worried lurking there was going to cause more harm than it's worth (for example, by letting me inadvertently slip into extremism) but the ability to predict what happened this week so easily and warn people about it who considered going was well worth that risk. Also I read there they are losing their SSL cert or something, so that might be how centralized, non-legal authority manages to shut them dow…

How did it let you slip into extremism?

Repeated exposure to things you know to be false or to bad arguments has been shown many times to shift your beliefs towards those false beliefs. It effectively wears your mind's defenses down. This 'repeat a lie enough and it becomes the truth' idea is a Trump specialty: 'Crooked Hillary', the wall, voter fraud, etc. Re: extermism, the far right's arguments are bad but if you're not actively exposed to counterarguments/lived experience it's easy to fall prey to such bombastic arguments that cities are crime ridden shitholes, BLM burned down everything, urban voting is rife with fraud, etc (not to mention even more harmful dehumanizing memes about minorities that further ingrain negative sterotypes). They offer a facile, comforting (to white suburbanites) view of the complex, often unsatisfying world that is easy to lower your defenses to.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#544
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a man who is a known fraud, morally bankrupt in business and personal life, and who has shown himself to be incompetent in office. Are you talking about donald trump or joe biden? > People who voted for Donald Trump should be ashamed of their vote. Using your logic, those who voted for corrupt biden should be ashamed as well. > That said, reading what people are saying in an effort to understand and to de-radicaliz…

I'm rather tired of the "both sides" rhetoric. One candidate refused to commit to a peaceful transition of power. One candidate has a history of racial bias (Central Park 5, apartment zoning, Judge Curiel, etc.). One candidate openly asked for and received aid from a foreign nation. One candidate built up a mob and pointed them at the Capitol in an attempted coup. On the other hand, one candidate lost a son to drug o…

> I'm rather tired of the "both sides" rhetoric.

That's what Republicans and Trump supporters say too. You are tired of it because it's true.

> One candidate refused to commit to a peaceful transition of power.

Neither candidate committed to it. The DNC was going to do exactly what the RNC did.

"Hillary Clinton said in a new interview that Joe Biden should not concede the 2020 presidential election “under any circumstances," anticipating issues that could prolong knowing the final outcome."

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/hillary-clint...

> One candidate has a history of racial bias (Central Park 5, apartment zoning, Judge Curiel, etc.).

Yes and Biden help push a law that sent millions of minorities to prison.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/the-controversial-19...

> One candidate openly asked for and received aid from a foreign nation.

Are you for real? Biden and his son's ukraine, russia, china, etc endeavors are just as bad or worse.

> One candidate built up a mob and pointed them at the Capitol in an attempted coup.

Right. And no rioting from biden's side.

The only people who think like you are brainwashed political zealots. You are part of the problem. The only difference between you and a tea party or trumpist is political party affiliation. That's it. And it doesn't really matter because DNC and RNC are ultimately on the same team. They serve the same master. And it isn't the american people.

But whatever, you do you and keep up the good fight.

I may be mistaken, but you sound like the type who cries about "privileged white males". But man, you sure do love Biden.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#545
post #12

Irrelevant. Most of the original users of /r/theDonald migrated theDonald.win, which became one of the top websites in the US in terms of traffic. They're behind Cloudflare and constantly DDoSd these days it seems like it. Moreover, they've gotten threats from their ISP that they have to delete certain posts or be shut down. (which seems scary to me) Also, please don't judge me, I just have a morbid curiosity to see…

> Also, please don't judge me, I just have a morbid curiosity to see what these people are talking about and how they think.

I read thedonald.win daily too. It feels like r/watchPeopleDie, some sort of morbid curiosity. Currently they're claiming Trump's concession video yesterday was deep faked. Very entertaining and scary at the same time.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#546

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What other options do you have if you can't educate or have intellectual discourse with people who are fabricating reality or deeply believe in conspiracy theories? It's like trying to pull someone out of a cult like Scientology. Of course, attempt to engage to improve the situation and help someone obtain ground truth on their own from legitimate information sources, but when it's obviously hopeless insulate yoursel…

Look at history, it’s just one damn tragedy after another and all without the supposedly super powerful influence of internet filter bubbles and radicalization. The internet isn’t the problem, this is just what humans do. Every age has blamed their problems on the latest technology while being willfully blind to the problems within their own minds. You can’t fight this with censorship or gatekeeping or trusted news s…

But those tragedies happened after series of radicalisations, pretty often after groups intentionally spread lies and hate, when people closed themselvea into bubbles and so on.

Pretty often the new technology was the vector by which those came, simply because bad actors seem to be quicker to take advantage of new technology.

Also historically, censorship and gatekewping were overall succesfull strategies. I am not saying that it is good thing to do all that much, there is danger in overdoing it, but historically it was effective in suppressing viewpoints.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#547
post #312
post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and it's always been contentious, and as the Internet integrates itself more and more into our lives, the questions about which layers of the network stack ought to follow which principles are worth continually focusing on.

I've been on the Internet since 1994, and it has always been the case that if you made a sufficiently odious pest of yourself over a long enough period of time, that someone would contact your university, employer or ISP, and you would lose your account, or at least your access to Usenet. You were always perfectly free to go find a new account elsewhere if anyone would have you. But there was always a point where if…

This is why *chan websites have gotten so popular. Being anonymous in everything you post is refreshing. Short of posting illegal content, almost anything goes.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#548
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Back when I was a kid the red-headed step children of the Internet were the warez, neo-nazi, « revolutionary » (read bomb-making), spam and snuff sites. I'm probably missing a few categories. And that's just the contentious stuff. There are things that even the most zealous free speech maniacs would have a hard time convincing themselves should be allowed even a modicum of publicity. Child porn is the most blatant on…

So you're literally using banning child porn to justify banning political discussion: exactly what free speech advocates predicted when censorship hit the internet.

Plotting the overthrow of the government isn't political speech

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#549
post #319

I've been having this argument more and more lately. People keep coming around to "surely, we must prevent *THIS* content?" and every time the answer is no. Somehow, we seem to be forgetting how free speech benefits us all , but only when it is categorically FREE and there are not exceptions "just this one time" Why just the other day, I had friends blow up on me for daring to suggest that a particular type of bigote…

No right is absolute, because there are areas where exercising one right might infringe on another right. Everyone has a right to their life, which is one of the most sacrosanct rights, but in self-defence you might still rightfully kill someone else. Those intersections of rights are always a fine line to walk on and you have to be careful so it is not abused. Just putting one right above the other can never be the…

I'm going to skip over defamation for now, both because I'm not a lawyer and because it's slightly more complicated. You can tell that's different because nobody preemptively censors defamation - it's a suit brought after-the-fact and then argued. Skipping it...

No. If "real danger Democracy can be lost" is your measuring stick, then whatever "Democracy" you have in charge is free to defend itself against any speech that may fight it. It's free license for the government to shoot down dissent and not reasonable.

Think of it this way. There is a lot of harmful speech which, in a perfect world, we could prevent. But because power corrupts, we cannot afford to give out the power to prevent speech because it is too easily abused. The benefit of preventing [harmful speech x] is not worth the cost of granting the government the power to jail you for speaking counter to what it believes is right.

Re: Reddit bans subreddit group “r/DonaldTrump”

#550
post #448

imo with such a doubling down on politics and partisanship, reddit is limiting its own audience. just visiting the front page for me is enough to dissuade me from using it with all the cringy center left takes being used on every subreddit and filling the home page. why are subreddits like “photos” or “pets” littered with “orange man bad” posts?

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