‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase • Hacker News Board

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#541

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 9:08 AM UTC

raegis wrote: post #186

goatinaboat wrote: post #108

“Most people of color working in tech know that there’s a diversity problem,” Interesting. Are Asians or Indians not “people” or “of color” in this worldview?

The major problem with this "people of color" designation is that it sweeps specific discrimination against African Americans* under the rug. It is certainly possible to have 100% employees "of color" while consciously excluding African Americans, which I have witnessed at private companies (blue collar jobs mostly) in California (where I live). The result is that affirmative action for African Americans, which has b…

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Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#542

Post by inglor_cz » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 9:21 AM UTC

treis wrote: post #445

slg wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you expand on what you mean by "far left politics"? Reminder, this happened in late 2018 and early 2019. It was before this year's round of Black Lives Matter protests. It was also before Coinbase issued its no politics edict. I am really struggling to think of what "far left politics" you are referring to here that would be important enough to the Black employees of Coinbase that it results in 75% of them leavin…

Most other tech firms make a specific effort to recruit Black people, promote them, and support causes Black people support. Coinbase's position is that while they support those things they want to focus on their cryptocurrency mission. Given that, the expected outcome would be 0 Black people working at Coinbase. If you were black, you'd much rather work for the firms actively trying to recruit and promote you.

"If you were black, you'd much rather work for the firms actively trying to recruit and promote you."

This is a tall assumption. People are more complicated than that, and so are their identities. What if you are a pro-life, strongly Catholic black person? I can definitely see the pro-diversity campaigners balking at the "pro-life" component of your identity.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#543

Post by inglor_cz » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 9:25 AM UTC

oh_sigh wrote: post #104

slg wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I can think of contexts, especially when n=15(if this was a statistical study on insulin response to artificial sweeteners, people would be saying the sample size is too small to draw conclusions), but I don't know if developing hypothetical scenarios is useful. N = 15 while p ≈ 20. It has been a while since I have taken a stats class, but that sample seems plenty large enough to me. >Learning the true context is mo…

If you order the claims in the article on a scale of not racist at all to clearly racist, you'll see basically all of the corroboration comes from claims on the left side of that scale, and few if any on the right side. The claims I was specifically thinking about were things like: > One Black employee said her manager suggested in front of colleagues that she was dealing drugs and carrying a gun, trading on racist s…

Interestingly, "carrying a gun" is an American stereotype here in Europe, not race-specific.

Isn't there like 400 million guns in private hands in the US? If so, the assumption that pretty much anyone you meet in the street might have concealed gun on them is not absurd per se.

But speaking about it aloud seems strange, yes.

"passed over for promotions"

This is the oldest workplace complaint ever and happens in racially homogeneous countries all the time. Favoritism in the workplace is probably as old as the pyramids.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#544

Post by throwawayriver » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 9:32 AM UTC

sumedh wrote: post #539

throwawayriver wrote: post #524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why do you I think I agree with you? "should the company do something or should it not babysit employees?" The company is doing something by not babysitting the employees. Not baby sitting the employees is the only correct option here. >So the company should just call the Police and wash their hands Yes they should call the police, and it's not "washing their hands". Sexual harassment is a criminal offence. Your emp…

> Not baby sitting the employees is the only correct option here. No its not. If you ever work in big companies you will know that. > Adults shouldn't have their employer telling them that sexual harassment is a no no. Yes they do, Assuming you are a male, you might be unknowingly harrasing female employees just by having a boys will be boys attitude. So an employer has to give you training and explain you why its wr…

>No its not. If you ever work in big companies you will know that.

This is the logical fallacy "appeal to the majority". Just because most companies do something doesn't necessarily mean it's moral, required, logically correct, etc.

>Assuming you are a male, you might be unknowingly harrasing female employees just by having a boys will be boys attitude.

"Boys will be boys" is not the legal definition of sexual harassment, so no.

>So an employer has to give you training and explain you why its wrong.

They do that to cover their ass from "hostile work environment" legal suits. This is not baby sitting.

>Some people use throwaway accounts to harass other employees on social media, if your employer gave you the training you would have learnt that is wrong.

There's nothing a company can do in that instance, no one would even know if it is company related. If the harassment veers off into criminal territory, then police should be called.

>Exactly, now you get it, the company may get into legal trouble if they dont have an official policy or they make it super difficult to report complaints.

Apparently you still don't get it. Companies shouldn't babysit employees if they're committing such crimes. Employers shouldn't be babysitting employees when it comes to crimes such as sexual harassment, rape, etc. These should be directed to the police. QED.

>No its not simple as that, just telling the victim to go to authorities is just washing your hands

It's by definition not "washing their hands" because these crimes are not something the company should be babysitting employees over.

>a responsible company also makes sure that victims can file a complaint with the management.

No responsible company would make or direct a victim to "file an internal complaint" if they are victims of a crime. That is by definition irresponsible.

>Not all victims want to file a police complaint, that does not mean they the abuser should get away with harassment.

That's on them. If you're being victimized, reporting the crime should be the only legal recourse. Companies are not in the business of handling justice, period.

>The company should still investigate and fire the abuser and then file a complaint with the victim's permission.

The last thing we need are companies replacing the role that police, laws, the judicial system, etc. provide.

If an employee is being victimized, the employer should 100% work with authorities to ensure justice is met.

>These are some of the aspects which you will understand if you been through some training.

I understand companies not wanting workspaces to be unfriendly, but "unfriendly" isn't illegal. Period.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#545

Post by sumedh » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 9:37 AM UTC

throwawayriver wrote: post #544

sumedh wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not baby sitting the employees is the only correct option here. No its not. If you ever work in big companies you will know that. > Adults shouldn't have their employer telling them that sexual harassment is a no no. Yes they do, Assuming you are a male, you might be unknowingly harrasing female employees just by having a boys will be boys attitude. So an employer has to give you training and explain you why its wr…

>No its not. If you ever work in big companies you will know that. This is the logical fallacy "appeal to the majority". Just because most companies do something doesn't necessarily mean it's moral, required, logically correct, etc. >Assuming you are a male, you might be unknowingly harrasing female employees just by having a boys will be boys attitude. "Boys will be boys" is not the legal definition of sexual harass…

> That's on them.

Apparently you still don't get it.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#546

Post by inglor_cz » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 9:45 AM UTC

unityByFreedom wrote: post #425

throwmylifawy wrote: post #214

Reading through the comments as black person is depressing. Many of the comments question whether the accusations are even true or collusive attack because of an unfounded accusation that black people tend to be SJWs (stereotyping). Others blame affirmative-action, bad schools, etc. (classic misdirection). Some even venture into the possibility that a black person complaining about being passed over for promotion mig…

My takeaway from such comments is their perception that it is not a problem for them . And, they are in denial, since if it wasn't a problem for them they would not question the story. Sharing stories does help. Racism is rooted in lack of exposure to diversity. It may never be eradicated but working to end it among every new generation is worthwhile IMO.

"Racism is rooted in lack of exposure to diversity."

Uh, have a talk with South African whites sometimes.

And isn't American Deep South, with its 30-50 per cent black population, considered stereotypically racist, while you have a lot of anti-racist movements in mostly white places like Oregon and New England?

It does not work in Europe either. For example, the far-right Rassemblement National has most support on the French Riviera and Corsica, places where the Arab and African populations are very numerous. It struggles to gain support in Bretagne, where there is little immigration.

Israel is very diverse and the level of ethnic and religious violence there is massive.

I am Slavic myself; traveling around former Yugoslavia, I heard things that would absolutely stun American readers. There are people absolutely ready to slit throats of the villagers two kilometers away, just because of a different religion.

From your comments, I hear the conviction that upon meeting people from a different culture, everyone will rejoice and cherish the changes. You do not take into account a possibility that two cultures may, upon contact, develop a serious conflict, perhaps even ending in war.

Diverse places like Northern Ireland, Yugoslavia, former USSR, the Caucasus, Lebanon, Iraq or lately Western European metropoles seem to be a hotbed of conflicts.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#547

Post by throwawayriver » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 9:47 AM UTC

sumedh wrote: post #545

throwawayriver wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No its not. If you ever work in big companies you will know that. This is the logical fallacy "appeal to the majority". Just because most companies do something doesn't necessarily mean it's moral, required, logically correct, etc. >Assuming you are a male, you might be unknowingly harrasing female employees just by having a boys will be boys attitude. "Boys will be boys" is not the legal definition of sexual harass…

> That's on them. Apparently you still don't get it.

>Apparently you still don't get it.

I do. Stop projecting about "not getting it".

I fully explained the position, and why your original example falls through.

QED.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#548

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 9:50 AM UTC

Overtonwindow wrote: post #505

xenadu02 wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you've never done this sort of thing before: there's a huge market for these "external consultants". Their unstated job (and reputations) are as whitewashing firms. You hire them to ensure there is "no evidence" of anything done wrong. The primary purpose is to create a credible defense in lawsuits but PR purposes are also common. Firms that find problems suddenly see their business dry up because most companies d…

I think that’s unfair, not all corporations are big bad monoliths trying to crush the little guy. The New York Times article is a hit piece, and main stream media’s continuation of constantly looking to create racial tension.

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Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#549

Post by unityByFreedom » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 10:02 AM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #546

unityByFreedom wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My takeaway from such comments is their perception that it is not a problem for them . And, they are in denial, since if it wasn't a problem for them they would not question the story. Sharing stories does help. Racism is rooted in lack of exposure to diversity. It may never be eradicated but working to end it among every new generation is worthwhile IMO.

"Racism is rooted in lack of exposure to diversity." Uh, have a talk with South African whites sometimes. And isn't American Deep South, with its 30-50 per cent black population, considered stereotypically racist, while you have a lot of anti-racist movements in mostly white places like Oregon and New England? It does not work in Europe either. For example, the far-right Rassemblement National has most support on the…

You can grow up in a diverse city while isolating yourself to a subsection that has no diversity.

Look at Trump, from NYC. Spent all his time at private clubs.

Re: ‘Tokenized’: Black Workers’ Struggles at Coinbase

#550

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Nov 28, 2020, 10:04 AM UTC

KirinDave wrote: post #201

bra-ket wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can do nothing, once someone calls you 'racist' you're racist for good. I don't know the details of the story, but the thing is with baseless accusations of racism is that it's a perfect slander, one can never prove innocence once proclaimed guilty.

If a San Francisco denizen says to you, "I stepped in human poop" you don't say, "Pics or it didn't happen." That's becuse it's a common occurrence. It's plausible it happened. The same is true of racism in Silicon Valley and the adjoint areas. Being less racist is actually the unusual condition that requires proof.

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