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My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

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Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#541

Post by Aeolun »

kube-system wrote: post #348
monksy wrote: post #249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hacking would probably be a plus for a software enginer. They know how to debug systems. Espionage, theft, and violent crimes... That's a different situation (I don't want someone coming after me after I liter their PR with comments)

A charge of 'hacking' is like a charge of 'breaking and entering'. They could have cracked a bank vault mission-impossible style, or maybe they threw a brick through the window. For all you know, they could have 'hacked in' via the password on the post-it on their coworkers monitor.

I threw a brick through a bank vault. Does that qualify?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#542

Post by Infinitesimus »

tomjen3 wrote: post #379
thelean12 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

After reading everyone's responses and responding myself, I've realized that I'm really caught up on the murder aspect. I think my revised opinion is that if you intentionally murder someone without a damn good reason, you should spend life in prison. This can include second degree murder, which is often not life in prison in the US (And also happens to line up with the OP scenario).

Suppose the person didn't commit murder, but had intentionally and violently raped a ten year old? We can't make the punishment the same, or he would just murder her, yet I don't think such a person should every be let out.

> We can't make the punishment the same, or he would just murder her, yet I don't think such a person should every be let out.

Do you believe people can change? Or perhaps more generally, what do you think the purpose of a prison should be when considering rehabilitation vs punishment?

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#543

Post by Aeolun »

ed312 wrote: post #464
romwell wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you said implies that any person that has committed a violent crime remains a danger to other people, forever - and should also be punished, forever. This is what the American justice system is like. In a saner world, (only) people who are a danger to others would be separated from the society, and being set free would be and indication that you are no longer a danger. In the US, being released from prison signa…

Conversely, someone who was already willing to violently attack another person is probably much more likely to do it again?

They’ve likely also noticed that the time they spent in the funhouse afterwards was not so fun after all. So even if this were true (which I don’t think it is), they might think twice about going at it again.

If someone is more likely to do it again because they are mentally unstable, they shouldn’t be released.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#544

Post by waterhouse »

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #491
deathgrips wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and learned not to steal That's the issue at hand. Serving a prison sentence doesn't mean that you have learned not to steal. It's difficult for the company to verify that you have "learned your lesson".

What will satisfy you then? Should people who come out from prison for stealing sit around jobless since nobody trusts them? That's bound to get them back into prison.

How about: an insurance policy such that, if the employee does end up stealing, then the employer is made whole. The former-thief employee could pay for such a policy, and then it would seem the employer would be indifferent between the former thief and the average applicant. The policy could be paid for out of the thief's salary; he would effectively be accepting a lower wage.

If the job is minimum wage, of course, then it's not possible to lower the wage further.

Also, discovering the theft and proving it was that employee might be difficult.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#545

Post by Aeolun »

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #491
deathgrips wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and learned not to steal That's the issue at hand. Serving a prison sentence doesn't mean that you have learned not to steal. It's difficult for the company to verify that you have "learned your lesson".

What will satisfy you then? Should people who come out from prison for stealing sit around jobless since nobody trusts them? That's bound to get them back into prison.

It’s interesting that the very people that say ‘they haven’t learned their lesson’ perpetuate that exact thing.

There was an article a little while back about a company tracking the employees behavior on the computer, and a lot of people mentioned that ‘if you are not trusted regardless, what incentive do you have to be trustworthy’.

This is the exact same thing.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#546

Post by larrywright »

dj_mc_merlin wrote: post #484
larrywright wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why all non-trivial applications need to have a code review process and a CI/CD pipeline that ensures that no application goes into production except via that pipeline, and that all code is reviewed prior to deployment. It’s not a guarantee, of course, but it’s a start.

How do you hotfix production? Do you have a special "go fast" flag in the pipeline?

If your pipeline doesn't allow you to deploy quickly, fix the pipeline. Nothing should go to production that doesn't go through the pipeline.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#547

Post by abrookewood »

BlueGh0st wrote: post #472
anon55555 wrote: post #69

Hey, posting anonymously here since this hits close to home; as I'm also a felon. I learned to program _after_ all my legal troubles started, and my sentence wasn't _nearly_ as long as this (6 months, drug crime). I 100% honestly feel like tech saved my life. My first job immediately gave me hope that I'm not defined by my past. Went from working in a factory making $7/hr (about 10 yrs ago), to now grossing well over…

How? I read so many felon success stories but I'm a non-violent felon and I can't even get an entry-level interview in IT. I'm multiskilled with a huge focus on security but despite the demand, I've had so much trouble. In fact, in one very sad case, I showed up to my first day of work as a sys admin and was walked out after 2 hours because the HR department neglected to go over my application and see the felony chec…

hey, look at the post from TheLastMile down below. No idea if you are close enough, but the job sounds like it would suit your skills.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#548

Post by Quekid5 »

ed312 wrote: post #464
romwell wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you said implies that any person that has committed a violent crime remains a danger to other people, forever - and should also be punished, forever. This is what the American justice system is like. In a saner world, (only) people who are a danger to others would be separated from the society, and being set free would be and indication that you are no longer a danger. In the US, being released from prison signa…

Conversely, someone who was already willing to violently attack another person is probably much more likely to do it again?

Crimes of passion are a thing.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#549

Post by bzbarsky »

geofft wrote: post #75
nickff wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are losing their jobs because of offhand tweets completely unrelated to their occupation; how can we expect that a blemish as big as a criminal record will be overlooked?

I don't think anyone expects them to be overlooked . You look at the person and you see if they've changed for the better. I would much rather hire someone who grew up poor and fell in with gangs and felt pressured to join in an armed robbery 10 years ago and understands that it's wrong than someone who had a demonstrated bias against some minority 10 years ago and still does today. This isn't about whether they're a…

I think there's a wide gulf between "said something that someone on the internet construed as racist" and "demonstrated bias against some minority"...

But past that, the general principle you advocate seems to be "try not to hire people who will not be able to work with others", right? It doesn't matter whether they're biased against minorities or non-minorities, as long as they're biased and will be acting irrationally in ways that piss off those around them.

Re: My friend starts her job today, after learning to program in prison

#550

Post by smolder »

ccktlmazeltov wrote: post #506
saxonww wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every job application I have ever filled out asked whether I had been convicted of a felony. All the way back to my first job bagging groceries.

that literally never happened to me

As opposed to figuratively...?
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