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Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

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Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#541

Post by leppr »

tmh79 wrote: post #413
zionic wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The entire idea is preposterous. The solution to affordable housing is oversupply of housing. Gov should incentivize new construction to reduce prices and let the market fix it.

Strong disagree, the solution to affordable housing includes a very large amount of private/free market housing, but the free market won't really address the needs of people below 30% of the median income. Additionally, good affordable housing is one of the best anti poverty tools that we have. IMO the long term solution is robust private market housing construction for the middle class, and a robust public housing c…

> the free market won't really address the needs of people below 30% of the median income.

Why? Do you think a poor person's vote is worth more to the government than their wallet would be to a house builder?

Is it impossible to make an acceptable house at 30% the cost of a median earner's house?

Your reasoning is valid for people whose productivity approaches zero, in which case welfare can indeed be needed. But the current housing problem is systematic and touches a far bigger percent of the population, and thus shouldn't be solved with charity.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#542

Post by njarboe »

inferiorhuman wrote: post #450
njarboe wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love cities, think they are great, and live in the Bay Area myself. I don't know how old you are, but much of the flight to suburbs was due to the building of freeways and the fear of nuclear attack on cities. Younger people did not grow up with bomb shelters and duck and cover drills at schools, so living in a big city is not something they fear. If we have a nuke or two blow up a few cities today, there might be…

I don't know old you are but duck and cover drills were a thing in the Bay Area well into the 80s (although typically for earthquakes not warfare).

Yes, nuclear duck and cover drills is what I was referring to.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#543

Post by jcranmer »

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #532
jcranmer wrote: post #517

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If those who had lived in their house for 30 years sold their property, they will have made more in capital gains from that sale alone than the average American has made in their entire life. I'm not exactly awash in sympathy here.

So you are saying people who invested earlier should be penalized because they were..I don’t know..alive before you and had a life and build a home that happened to appreciate in value even though it’s a perceived value with no real liquid gains. Maybe they don’t want to profit out of capital gains. Maybe some people love their home of 30 years and would like to spend the reminder of their lives debt free after plann…

On the flip side, there is a finite supply of housing. A retired senior citizen living in a house prevents a young professional from living in that house. Given that the former is going to provide far less benefit to society than the latter, there is an opportunity cost that needs to be accounted for somehow. A property tax is not a bad way to account for the opportunity cost.

> Seniors and retirees are such low impact on society.

IIRC, medical care accounts for more government spending than all other discretionary spending combined. And most of medical care is going to be caring for seniors.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#544

Post by inferiorhuman »

jelliclesfarm wrote: post #505
inferiorhuman wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They used repeal and partial repeal interchangeably. Prop 13 also pushes undue costs onto new property development. Lower development costs equals fewer luxury condos. Were California to both build more and repeal Prop 13 fully it's unlikely that retired tech bros would be priced out of their houses. Even so one of the primary roles of a county assessor is to determine where tax breaks are suitable. Allowing the (typ…

Are you speaking for all of them? I am unclear about what you said about ‘undue costs onto new property developments’. Why should existing home owners share the cost of new developments?? What are these ‘undue costs’? The development company buys land or old property and builds on it. Then they sell it at a profit. They pay fees to the city for digging trenches and fixing sewers and water and gas and electricity conn…

I started skimming your reply and, well, you had me at virtue signalling. Buh bye.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#545

Post by newnewpdro »

enad wrote: post #512
newnewpdro wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm inclined to agree with you, and would say that many folks living in the expensive parts of California aren't even leveraging the majority of what makes it so expensive to live where they do. I lived in the SF bay area for over a decade, and when employed by the tech industry and spending all my free time outdoors it was very worthwhile. But whenever I stopped working in the lucrative positions there, the math sto…

Just don’t try to send your kids to the schools in the affordable parts of the state. Low cost of living = lower property values = low property taxes = poorly funded schools.

What kids?

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#546

Post by reaperducer »

kortilla wrote: post #431
reaperducer wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question:do you still vote Democrat? He said "Houston," so chances are the answer is yes. People outside of Texas like to pretend that it's a solid red state. They conveniently don't bother to look at electoral maps and pretend that Austin doesn't exist so long as they can make jokes about where someone else lives.

If you think Texans pretend Austin doesn’t exist, I doubt you’ve ever been to Texas. It’s very frequently lovingly referred to as a liberal armpit, shithole, etc. Austins problems (super high housing costs, homelessness) are often trotted out as an example of Democratic policies being the source of California’s problems.

If you think Texans pretend Austin doesn’t exist, I doubt you’ve ever been to Texas.

I said no such thing. I said people who like to stereotype Texas as Republican like to pretend Austin doesn't exist.

As for visiting Texas, I lived there for many years.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#547

Post by plandis »

smsm42 wrote: post #178
dfsegoat wrote: post #4

Sonoma County, CA here. We've lost more people from our county than any other in the state between 2017-2018 [1], and it is only continuing. From the few of these people I have spoken with - anecdotally: - None left because of the fire risk, specifically. [though some obviously did - 2] - Most left because of the cost of living: $600k avg home price. - Some also left because of political and human environment: We hav…

> Petty crime is increasing, and state laws are only enabling this - people are sick of it. I wonder if people considered voting the politicians who made these laws out. Judging from CA voting patterns, probably not. And then when it gets really bad, they move to another state and likely vote for the same policies that caused them to move in the first place.

I know quite a few fairly liberal people who moved explicitly because they wanted to do this. To a lot of people in my social circle, it seems inherently unfair that at a federal level your vote counts for more in a lot of conservative rural areas.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#548

Post by Reedx »

nradov wrote: post #302
smsm42 wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Petty crime is increasing, and state laws are only enabling this - people are sick of it. I wonder if people considered voting the politicians who made these laws out. Judging from CA voting patterns, probably not. And then when it gets really bad, they move to another state and likely vote for the same policies that caused them to move in the first place.

California has largely become a single party state. I'm not trying to start an argument between Democrats and Republicans here, but we can clearly see a pattern everywhere in the world. Once single party rule is institutionalized the politicians are no longer accountable to voter interests.

It's like having a monopoly and not having to compete.

Really you want both sides to be strong and for there to be a healthy push and pull. So the best ideas from each rise to the top and then do battle via good faith debate. With the ability and willingness to steelman each other's arguments.

Instead what we tend to see is an eagerness to interpret everything in the worst way possible, attacking strawmen and talking past each other. Which accomplishes little aside from increasing polarization.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#549

Post by imroot »

souprock wrote: post #459
nmfisher wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm still trying to understand how it all works in the USA, so please bear with me. What do you mean by "No Sales Tax", then go on to say "Frequently 10% sales tax"?

Clearly that is wrong. There is no income tax. The sales tax is 6% to the state, and counties can increase it for their own purposes, up to a maximum of 8%. The average is 6.65%. At certain times in summer, school supplies and hurricane supplies are 0%. Grocery items are 0%.

Yup -- my apologies -- No Income tax.

Re: Goodbye, New York, California and Illinois – Hello where?

#550

Post by agensaequivocum »

Having left Orange County California for Phoenix Arizona in early 2019, I definitely plan on staying. We can easily afford a house, the community here is unbelievably better (many young large families, an amazing Diocese), lower income and property taxes, cheaper gas, constitutional carry. Sure it may get a little hot in the summer but you can easily drive up to Flagstaff to escape the heat, and, in the winter, go skiing for much cheaper than Big Bear.
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