This will be a great lawsuit and exploration of the right to organize in the digital age.
Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
541–550 of 779 posts
Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
#542Earlier quoted context omitted.
Workers need to be willing to break the law in order to win victories against the people that make the laws. Employers aren't even the law, this is such a small thing and is defensible. I don't see a reason to side with Google at all, if they really vociferously disagreed, they could ask her to remove the notification.
> Workers need to be willing to break the law in order to win victories against the people that make the laws. Not if they want to win, they don't. Anarchism won nothing at the turn of the century. Organized (note the adjective!) Labor broke through when it became a political movement with representation in government.
Asserting rights you don't have means breaking the law by definition, and it has always been that way - from civil rights movement to the revolution.
Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
#543Earlier quoted context omitted.
> So that means she should be able to inject her opinion on any site that she doesn’t like? Just to be clear: her "opinion" is "don't take actions that would cause the company to break federal labor law."
Is she part of the company’s legal team?
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Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
#544> They also dragged me into three separate interrogations with very little warning each time. I was interrogated about separate other organizing activities, and asked (eight times) if I had an intention to disrupt the workplace. The interrogations were extremely aggressive and illegal. They wouldn’t let me consult with anyone, including a lawyer, and relentlessly pressured me to incriminate myself and any coworkers I…
"They wouldn’t let me consult with anyone, including a lawyer"
Yikes, that feels so dystopian to me...
Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
#545Earlier quoted context omitted.
I agreed with this at first, but according to her medium post ( https://medium.com/@ksspiers/google-fires-another-worker-for... ) "Part of my job was to write browser notifications so that my coworkers can be automatically notified of employee guidelines and company policies while they surf the web" If this is true and her job is literally to create javascript notifications of company policy, then I think it's entire…
from her blog: > This kind of code change happens all the time. we have all been there. i think she knew she wasn't following proper procedure. even if it's done "all the time".
if proper procedure isn't enforced, especially if others are routinely encouraged not to follow it, then it isn't proper procedure.
Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
#546In the end, how much would unionizing hurt Google's shareholders/executives? Surely they have enough riches already, why not allow the employees to improve their lot as well?
Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
#547Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here is one article talking about subway construction costs in NY. https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/28/nyregion/new-york-subway-... It's not just unions, but here is a taste: There are “nippers” to watch material being moved around and “hog house tenders” to supervise the break room. Each crane must have an “oiler,” a relic of a time when they needed frequent lubrication. Standby electricians and plumbers are to be on…
The "oiler" thing sounds stupid, sure, and overstaffing in general is a fair concern. But, devil's advocate, how much time and money would be wasted if an essential machine broke and there wasn't a mechanic standing around ready to spring into action? How many people would be seriously or fatally injured in a year without a helper on those "An extra person is required..." tasks? I don't know the answers. Some of them…
==it's worth keeping in mind that what looks like redundant waste is sometimes an important guard against some kind of failure. Just because it isn't always used doesn't mean that it's not worthwhile.==
Even more likely is that the redundancy exists because of something bad that happened in the past. That is how most regulation comes into existence.
Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
#548It feels weird for me to read comments in this thread debating about and assuming a simple note about unionization or organization by an employee whose job it was to do exactly this kind of thing is "not in good faith" or a "violation". In my mind this kind of thing has the same sentiment as _any_ policy notice. The world in which notifying people that they have the right to organize is a "violation" is a really mess…
I would start protesting Google if they did not fire a security engineer for abusing systems like this. A security engineer subverting internal security systems is what is messed up. Turning it all in a horrible PR story about a retaliatory union-busting firing should disqualify your career for many years to come. Maybe she can exchange this loss of career prospect for some activism credit against the Big Bad Google.…
Subverting internal security systems by going through the usual approvals process for a code review? When it was her job to add notices to the tool she was working on? And arguing that she deserves to have her career sunk because of it entirely?
What absolute extreme bullshit. By your own arguments if a security engineer was advocating for increased security against management, they would be considered an activist and someone that deserves to be fired, tarred and feathered and tried as a witch.
Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
#549> Kathryn Spiers, who worked as a security engineer, updated an internal Chrome browser extension so that each time Google employees visited the website of IRI Consultants — the Troy, Michigan, firm that Google hired this year amid a groundswell of labor activism at the company — they would see a pop-up message that read: “Googlers have the right to participate in protected concerted activities.” So basically, the Go…
I agreed with this at first, but according to her medium post ( https://medium.com/@ksspiers/google-fires-another-worker-for... ) "Part of my job was to write browser notifications so that my coworkers can be automatically notified of employee guidelines and company policies while they surf the web" If this is true and her job is literally to create javascript notifications of company policy, then I think it's entire…
No. Just no. She absolutely violated what her job was.
Re: Engineer says Google fired her for notifying co-workers of right to organize
#550It feels weird for me to read comments in this thread debating about and assuming a simple note about unionization or organization by an employee whose job it was to do exactly this kind of thing is "not in good faith" or a "violation". In my mind this kind of thing has the same sentiment as _any_ policy notice. The world in which notifying people that they have the right to organize is a "violation" is a really mess…
There's a difference between leaving a "simple note" and abusing a security tool to spam employees. Google is tired of employees using their job as a political soapbox. Furthermore, it sets a precedent. Next week someone uses the same tool to argue against unionization. And now Google had to let them do it or they'll be seen as being impartial.
You reap what you sow. Google wanted to be a fresh leftist corporation, now they have to deal with it.