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Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

theguardian.com

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Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#541

Post by foldr »

CompanionCuuube wrote: post #521
foldr wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You could probably kill more people with knives So why are you worried about gun bans? You can just use a knife instead. I think you must know, really, that guns are more dangerous and effective than knives. That's why you want the right to own one. It's also why the US has frequent mass shootings in schools, whereas there are no instances of mass stabbings in UK schools. Just look at the recent terrorist incident…

> So why are you worried about gun bans? You can just use a knife instead. You seem to be confused about the concept that self-defense is a different use case than mass shootings. Why is that? > I think you must know, really, that guns are more dangerous and effective than knives. That's why you want the right to own one. Are you under the impression that this poster would not object to a ban on knives? Why? > It's a…

Your first points is obscured by snark. The second seems to be based on a misreading. The third is merely the observation that empirical reasoning is non-demonstrative.

As for number four, I see that you are another pro-gun poster who is unfamiliar with the absolute basics of firearm safety. That doesn't make a great case for private gun ownership. Here's what the pinky leftos at concealednation.org have to say (see point 2): https://concealednation.org/2013/11/the-4-rules-of-gun-safet...

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#542

Post by foldr »

philwelch wrote: post #527
cardiffspaceman wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Scenes like this The link points to one example. The OP didn't support their assertion that constables commonly confiscate screwdrivers during weapons sweeps, but I don't think OP intended the picture prove that, just to show the definition of "weapon" in use.

Here’s another example: https://i.redd.it/hzigm9tmiyn21.png

School children do occasionally stab each other using scissors (e.g. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-47474896). Depending on the context, removing large scissors from the school premises is not obviously an overreaction. The ones pictured are much larger than required for most crafty purposes, and have sharp rather than rounded ends.

This is a red herring in any case, since schools in the US would be perfectly entitled to remove scissors, guns, machetes, etc. etc. from their premises if they chose to, regardless of the 2A.

Moreover, to the extent that items such as scissors actually are banned in any significant number of UK schools (I doubt it), this is a new development that has nothing to do with gun control. There has been no significant change to gun control legislation since the mid 90s, whereas I can attest that scissors were certainly available in UK schools into the mid 2000s.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#543

Post by ajuc »

ta0987 wrote: post #533
ajuc wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because, unlike with guns, nobody is trying to ban cars. That's actually wrong. Gun control isn't banning guns, and if you consider background checks a "ban" - then driving licence requirement is a "ban on cars" :) If someone had the bright idea to put the right to drive a car in constitution - Americans would be now arguing whether countrywide requirement to have a driving licence to drive a car is ok or not :)

Not sure how to reply if you just ignore everything I wrote that addresses that.

Your first assumption (that cars are less regulated than guns) is wrong, why refer to the rest of the post if I can just show it's wrong.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#544

Post by ta09876 »

ajuc wrote: post #543
ta0987 wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how to reply if you just ignore everything I wrote that addresses that.

Your first assumption (that cars are less regulated than guns) is wrong, why refer to the rest of the post if I can just show it's wrong.

Where did I assume that?

I said that there is a large political block trying to ban guns. Not that they are banned, or that they are more regulated than cars. Is that what you're referring to?

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#545

Post by selimthegrim »

ryanmercer wrote: post #287
selimthegrim wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you want them to be lined up single file with boys and girls in one line each between classrooms too? That’s what they basically do in college in Pakistan at this point. When do you expect them to make the transition to the other side of the panopticon as responsible adults?

Gender has nothing to do with limiting what children can carry, or conceal, coming and going from the school building. In Pakistan the gender segregation is almost certainly a religious thing given Islam is the religion of 96% of the country. Segregation by gender is also found in masjids/mosques, this is a normal part of Islamic culture. Comparing a religious custom in a predominately Islamic country to clear backpa…

The point was they’re not trusted to goof off between classes unsupervised - that fraternization is the motivation is secondary. Also thanks for lazily generalizing about Islamic countries

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#546

Post by philwelch »

foldr wrote: post #536
philwelch wrote: post #525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My overall point, I think, was adequately well-stated with my first comment in this thread: America has been one of the freest countries in the world for 150 years. Your counterarguments seem to consist of, “so was Britain” (which is insufficient to refute my point) and “Britain didn’t disenfranchise based on race” (which is factually dubious when you consider colonization as well as insufficient in terms of proving…

You're reading a lot of things into my original reply that just aren't there.

If so, it’s only because I was making the IMO generous assumption that your original reply was meant to actually refute my thesis that “ America has been one of the freest countries in the world for at least 150-some years.”, and CDSlice’s argument that “America could still be one of the freest countries in the last 150 years if most everyone else was even worse.”

If you were intentionally making insufficient and hence irrelevant points, why wade into the thread in the first place?

> I think there are lots of Western countries that have never had laws barring people from voting due to their race.

This might technically be true, because many of those Western countries have taken the further step of abolishing democracy altogether. I hope you would agree that the various fascist and fascist-adjacent dictatorships of 20th century Europe were “even worse” than racial disenfranchisement.

> E.g., there has never been any such law in the UK.

The use of “e.g.” here implies that you’re discussing Western countries in general and not just the UK. Also, this point is rather fatuous for reasons I’ve already discussed.

> Women in the UK also got the vote slightly earlier.

This is false, as I’ve already discussed.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#547

Post by philwelch »

foldr wrote: post #542
philwelch wrote: post #527

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s another example: https://i.redd.it/hzigm9tmiyn21.png

School children do occasionally stab each other using scissors (e.g. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-surrey-47474896 ). Depending on the context, removing large scissors from the school premises is not obviously an overreaction. The ones pictured are much larger than required for most crafty purposes, and have sharp rather than rounded ends. This is a red herring in any case, since schools in the US would be pe…

You’re really fond of the fatuous technicalities, aren’t you? Of course confiscating knives, scissors, screwdrivers, and pliers isn’t technically gun control because these tools aren’t technically guns. Well-observed.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#548

Post by CompanionCubee »

foldr wrote: post #541
CompanionCuuube wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So why are you worried about gun bans? You can just use a knife instead. You seem to be confused about the concept that self-defense is a different use case than mass shootings. Why is that? > I think you must know, really, that guns are more dangerous and effective than knives. That's why you want the right to own one. Are you under the impression that this poster would not object to a ban on knives? Why? > It's a…

Your first points is obscured by snark. The second seems to be based on a misreading. The third is merely the observation that empirical reasoning is non-demonstrative. As for number four, I see that you are another pro-gun poster who is unfamiliar with the absolute basics of firearm safety. That doesn't make a great case for private gun ownership. Here's what the pinky leftos at concealednation.org have to say (see…

That's quite a lot of pot calling.

And your last paragraph is just a complete misunderstanding of what the poster said. My comment was not to denounce the rule about where you point the gun, but to note that your claim about killing was unfounded.

> And I don't have to kill them if I pull a gun on one

The fact that you don't understand this is really troublesome. Are you one of those people who believes in that old myth about swords having to taste blood before being resheathed? Because this is on that level.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#549

Post by sdinsn »

ajuc wrote: post #529
sdinsn wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 12.21 gun-related deaths Which includes suicides & accidents. It also ignores the overall homicide rate, which is much more important. Do dead people care whether they are murdered with a gun or a knife?

> suicides & accidents. Which are more common when the access to guns is easier. > Do dead people care whether they are murdered with a gun or a knife? Deaths caused by guns are easily preventable. Why not prevent them?

> Which are more common when the access to guns is easier.

Again, you are ignoring all the countries that have strict gun control laws and still have high rates of suicides.

> Deaths caused by guns are easily preventable

They clearly aren't, since there is no correlation between gun control laws and homicides.

Re: Clear backpacks, monitored emails: U.S. students under constant surveillance

#550

Post by yaur »

1996 wrote: post #321
yaur wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I helped build a product a while back that helped those owners give access to the local police. Depending on what the owner wanted to do this could be just the street cameras or everything.

Do you sleep well at night?

Actually I do. I don't feel bad about writing any legal software. If laws suck they should be changed.
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