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U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

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Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#541

Post by paulddraper »

trgn wrote: post #75
chrischattin wrote: post #17

How to fix student loans... The .gov backs student loans. And, they are non-dischargeable. So, it is zero risk for the lender to give loan to the 2.7 GPA moron getting a worthless basket weaving degree from the local private lib arts school for $100k. So, they give as many loans as possible, since they can't lose (taxpayer on the hook). Colleges are incentivized to drive up costs of tuition b/c tons of free money. It…

The 100k basket weaving liberal arts student barely exists and is a meme to generate rage clicks.

"Basket weaving" may be a meme.

But English, psychology, history, music, etc. are in fact very real.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#542

Post by paulddraper »

xupybd wrote: post #438
holografix wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you guys need to quit the platitudes. You need to do something about your “fixed” meritocratic society where your future is largely determined by your parents’ wealth. You need tax reform, healthcare, cheaper education. I had a discussion with an American friend recently, he offered that the American society has produced marvels such as Google and Facebook and Tesla and countless others, fair point. Can you imagi…

Non American here. They seem to be the greatest country on earth. They have a big problem with the gap between the rich and the poor but have huge upward mobility. The education system is too expensive and a bit of a scam but does that cause the problems people think it does. Can you make it in the US without a degree?

> Can you make it in the US without a degree?

Absolutely.

* This being HN, I should point you can make it in IT/software without a degree though you must start at the low-end and climb from there.

* Skilled blue collar work has its limits but provides an accessible career more than capable of supporting a family.

* Military service has its drawbacks but has quite cushy benefits.

* For the ambitious, service-based small businesses are easier than ever.

While it's possible to make it in the US without a degree, I'd recommend more of a middle ground of a 2 or 4-year degree from a local college or state school.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#543

Post by ineedasername »

Glyptodon wrote: post #500
ineedasername wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>mostly benefiting the rich and very poor Not quite just the very poor: U Chicago gives free full tuition to students from families making under $125k. But as for the very poor at nearly every other private college, the picture is more bleak: The average private is in the ballpark of $35k. Maximum grants from the feds and state of Illinois total about $16k. That's not enough. However, it is generally plenty for atten…

When I was accepted that ($125k) policy didn't exist or we'd have been included, though in the upper half. I'd likely have chosen to go there if it had existed then. That said it sounds like the general situation I described is somewhat true overall.

Yep, your comments were largely correct. I just wanted to add a bit more context and detail. I didn't intend it to come across as a disagreement.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#544

Post by joe5150 »

treis wrote: post #399
joe5150 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

are you talking about diploma pathways: "advanced"/"standard" diplomas and things of that nature? because that's the norm in several states.

More along the lines of everyone takes a test and the top X% are in the college prep track, the next Y% are in the 2 year community college track, and the rest are on the industrial/shop class track.

oh, interesting. I hadn't heard of that. racial disparities appear in the distribution of different degree "tiers" in states that use those systems, too, and in some the degree you get in high school determines your eligibility for some types of college funding, so it sounds like it's a similar problem potentially.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#545

Post by Glyptodon »

ineedasername wrote: post #543
Glyptodon wrote: post #500

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I was accepted that ($125k) policy didn't exist or we'd have been included, though in the upper half. I'd likely have chosen to go there if it had existed then. That said it sounds like the general situation I described is somewhat true overall.

Yep, your comments were largely correct. I just wanted to add a bit more context and detail. I didn't intend it to come across as a disagreement.

I didn't take it as disagreement!

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#547

Post by sodafountan »

LanceH wrote: post #151
sodafountan wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't do that because it would be far more beneficial at this point to just declare bankruptcy out of college and get the loans dismissed than it would be to pay them back. Also there's nothing of value to repossess if you were to declare bankruptcy, banks can't repossess and then re-sell a college degree.

Why are these loans special? Other loans without collateral exist. Maybe private lenders shouldn't have the full force of the government behind them. Maybe they shouldn't be offering some of these loans.

There are loans you can get without collateral, they're typically pretty small loans with higher interest and are only issued to people with good credit.

The problem with student loans is students typically don't have any credit, don't have any collateral and what they're seeking can't be repossessed if they default - banks know that issuing loans to these people without the backing of the government is financial suicide, in other words the free market says these loans shouldn't exist at all.

The student loan crisis was caused by government intervention, guaranteeing loans for people who otherwise wouldn't have even been eligible to receive that type of money allows institutions to jack the price of school up infinitely and banks to keep allowing it because neither can fail - in the long run it's only the student who has to bear the cost long term.

We need to allow institutions and banks to fail again, that's the only way you correct this problem. As soon as you stop guaranteeing loans banks stop issuing them and college's are forced to bring prices down. That would hurt some students in the short term who wouldn't be able to afford college but eventually the free market would do it's work and make college more reasonably priced again.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#548

Post by prirun »

This comment stood out:

"It also manages a staff that receives more than $1 billion in salary, $230 million of which is for its roughly 1,350 instructional staff and faculty, according to federal data for 2017-18. Producing and employing Nobel laureates does not come cheap."

In other words, only 25% of expense is for instructional staff and faculty, while 75% is not. I'd love to know how much of the $750M salary goes to administrative execs who don't actual do anything.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#549

Post by sodosopa »

yowlingcat wrote: post #531
sodosopa wrote: post #424

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pick a major which ensures your financial survival. Spending 100k on a degree which cannot ensure survival is a hell of a way to learn that lesson.

I don't disagree with you, but when that cost is underwritten and inflated by nondischargeable, government-guaranteed debt that's the product of a decision made by folks scarcely old enough to vote or serve in the military -- it just feels wrong.

There are other options, not all require college. The world needs tradesmen/women. Some of their pay is on par with my data scientists.

I also have a few on staff who do not have a degree but perform solid work and manage the same tasks as my degreed team members. There are options with college or military.

Re: U of Chicago projected to be the first U.S. university to cost $100k per year

#550

Post by yowlingcat »

sodosopa wrote: post #549
yowlingcat wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with you, but when that cost is underwritten and inflated by nondischargeable, government-guaranteed debt that's the product of a decision made by folks scarcely old enough to vote or serve in the military -- it just feels wrong.

There are other options, not all require college. The world needs tradesmen/women. Some of their pay is on par with my data scientists. I also have a few on staff who do not have a degree but perform solid work and manage the same tasks as my degreed team members. There are options with college or military.

I think that's exactly why this kind of a loan product existing is wrong in the first place. Why is it okay to directly profit off of the debt interest of selling hopes and dreams of class mobility to impressionable youth who will be in an even worse position after taking that loan? If we abet it, are we intrinsically taking a dim Darwinian view and saying that they deserve to be exploited?
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