Two things stand out from this fiasco. 1: Even very powerful and successful people are dazzled by money. 2: The ability of an individual or a family to accumulate massive private wealth inevitably leads to a lot of messed up behaviour.
Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties
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Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties
#542Earlier quoted context omitted.
"psychologically manipulate" - isn't that just a loaded way of saying "convince"? Did he actually do all those other things, beatings, threatening? Or is it such a stereotype that it is just assumed that it must have been this way?
Why are you going out on such limbs and repeatedly defending Epstein and his child sexual abuse in this thread? I'm struggling to understand your motivations. This should be a clear and obvious case of someone who was really fucked up, did fucked up things, and deserves nobody in polite society defending him. And yet here we are having this discussion, somehow.
I'm in no way defending Epstein in any way. It is horrifying how many people in this thread seem to be unable to understand that. I hope nobody of you works in the legal system. You have a prejudice, and you can only see what confirms your prejudice, despite nothing of it being there. You think I defend Epstein, but I never did.
I asked a question about a paragraph describing a scene of a guy visiting MIT Media Lab with young assistants (not teens, they were described s young women), and Media lab staff being concerned.
I did not have the context of Epstein already being convicted as a sex offender.
There was nothing in that paragraph about Epstein having sex with teens, and I didn't mention that, either.
I am merely of the opinion that in general, young women from Eastern Europe should also be allowed to work as assistants for old men. That doesn't imply I endorse older men taking advantage of teens.
Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties
#543Where did Epstein's money come from? He claimed to be a hedge fund manager for select clients, however in the aftermath of his rearrest after the Miami Herald series there were comments from Wall Street people that there was little evidence of how he actually made so much money. Pure speculation, but the original source of Epstein's donations might also prove a problem.
Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties
#544Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why are you going out on such limbs and repeatedly defending Epstein and his child sexual abuse in this thread? I'm struggling to understand your motivations. This should be a clear and obvious case of someone who was really fucked up, did fucked up things, and deserves nobody in polite society defending him. And yet here we are having this discussion, somehow.
nf8nnfufuu asks questions -- in order to better understand what did actually happen. Epstein had sex with girls younger than 18. But was is against their will? Epstein is dead, so he does not care if anybody defends him. But if we want to understand how Epstein operated, we should question the accusations.
While I think in general it is also important to understand how such things work - how young girls are being exploited.
However, here I didn't even talk about his sex exploits. I only asked about a paragraph about perceiving a man with young assistants.
Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties
#545Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have no issues with him being forced out of his position. I have an issue, in this sub sub thread, with people mandating that I should have considered that head of Media Lab would openly meet a convicted sex trafficker.
Fair enough, I guess, and if you'd just said that you'd have been better off. What you said instead showed a complete lack of understanding for how sexual abuse is inflicted on people. By implication that anyone not held directly against their will couldn't be a victim. That power dynamics play a huge part, along with shame, guilt, and sometimes necessity.
"By implication that anyone not held directly against their will couldn't be a victim."
I never said any such thing. I said the opposite thing: that it is possible a young assistant to an old guy is not a victim. That's an important distinction.
I think establishing a rule in society that young women can't work for old men would be wrong.
Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties
#546Earlier quoted context omitted.
Even young East European models have to work somewhere (at least some of them). (Paragraph called them "young women", not "teens", btw). Should young women only be allowed to work for poor people, if they are attractive? Or maybe only for other young people? I don't think that would be a good rule. I don't think it would be enough for an accusation. Of course with the background that Epstein was already known as a se…
Why two beautiful young women though - that seems not to be likely due to chance and surely enough to make any rational person wonder what they hell is going on? The thing is to make everyone who you meet a bit complicit. Two young women at the meeting is not quite enough to make anyone at the meeting intervene, but it is enough that there is then a lever - "you were at the october meet, you met Siri and Alexa... you…
"Why two beautiful young women though - that seems not to be likely due to chance and surely enough to make any rational person wonder what they hell is going on?"
What if a person likes to work with beautiful young women? That's generally part of why people are being called beautiful - because people feel elated in their company.
Let's not pretend that looks don't matter in this world. If you have two equally qualified candidates for a job, perhaps you take the prettier one.
Maybe there is also an effect on meetings. Haven't there been studies on how men behave differently in the presence of attractive women? Maybe it is strategy to bring attractive women to business meetings, to change the dynamics.
Just saying there could be any number of reasons.
Personally I feel it is OK to act according to one's preferences (within bounds of no coercion and so on). If you prefer to be surrounded by attractive women, you should be allowed to act accordingly. I know not everyone agrees. (and please, I am not defending Epstein, I don't think sexual exploitation is OK - I am talking here about the general setting of hiring young assistants).
Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties
#547Earlier quoted context omitted.
You should read the article and https://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/how-an-elite-univer... and then ask yourself whether concerns about learning something retroactively are relevant to a situation where the problem was not just known in advance but established to the point that Ito had to circumvent MIT’s existing ban. Follow by considering whether bringing up generic distractions which don’t apply to this speci…
You appear angry at me. I didn't argue anything in bad faith or attempt to distract anyone. Nor do I think the thing I said is totally irrelevant. There is a generic thing to be said about the "criminal-philanthropist" concept, it is a topic that many of us have not considered until stories in recent years, which seem to be a trend of more than one such offender, brought it to the forefront.
You said this:
> It all highlights the difficult job facing people tasked with taking money from donors in this way. They won't always have 20/20 hindsight.
It does not highlight that and no hindsight was needed. What was needed was to not go out of your way to conceal taking money you know you should not.
You converted situation into completely different situation.
Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties
#548> This is well-known now. Please avoid this. Let me preface this by saying that I have no idea who Epstein is except that he's some rich, white guy that got caught up in some kind of sex scandal, was arrested and is now dead. I'm not belittling his acts nor ignoring his accusers, I'm saying that I did not know . Now let me explain why. Over the past couple of years, there have been non-stop stories of one powerful wh…
> A good number of us here are in the tech industry, we're busy enough as it is.
Might want to tune back in a bit; the demise of Epstein is one of the most kelptocratic things that's ever happened in the US. It doesn't even matter exactly how he died; there is no 'fact pattern' you can subscribe to that isn't a consequence of in-your-face public corruption.
Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties
#549Earlier quoted context omitted.
If Xeni Jardin's claim below is true, Joi Ito needs to resign from more than just MIT: "I told the @nytimes everything. So did whistleblowers I was in touch with inside @MIT and @Edge. They printed none of the most damning truths. @joi is on the board of the NYT. THANK GOD FOR @RonanFarrow" EDIT: NYTimes is now indicating that Ito has resigned from NYT Co board, effective immediately [2]. [1] https://twitter.com/xeni…
I read a few more of Xeni's tweets, and wanted to get HN's honest opinion on them. It seems (to me) like a lot of people on Twitter (and HN?) are over-reacting. For example, Xeni's pinned tweet references this other tweet ( https://twitter.com/xeni/status/1165266579560521728 ), which implies that anybody who was ever at a dinner with Epstein should be considered complicit in Epstein's crimes. Take this quote, for exa…
Yes, to my this is an excess of accusations.
Re: Joi Ito Resigns from M.I.T. Media Lab After Outcry over Jeffrey Epstein Ties
#550Earlier quoted context omitted.
You appear angry at me. I didn't argue anything in bad faith or attempt to distract anyone. Nor do I think the thing I said is totally irrelevant. There is a generic thing to be said about the "criminal-philanthropist" concept, it is a topic that many of us have not considered until stories in recent years, which seem to be a trend of more than one such offender, brought it to the forefront.
You said this: > It all highlights the difficult job facing people tasked with taking money from donors in this way. They won't always have 20/20 hindsight. It does not highlight that and no hindsight was needed. What was needed was to not go out of your way to conceal taking money you know you should not. You converted situation into completely different situation.
But in these cases, how do you know?