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Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

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Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#541

Post by EForEndeavour »

sf_rob wrote: post #480
cmiles74 wrote: post #324

A co-worked of mine convinced the company to buy them a MacBook (the first the company has ever purchased) to replace their aging Dell laptop. They have been doing more and more work on the company's iOS app and the aging Mac mini the company had purchased needed to replaced anyway. After having the laptop for just over a year, they called me upset as the laptop would no longer power on. After some gentle interrogati…

I damaged my company 2017 MBP by dropping it ~24" when I caught the cord on my foot. The Genius Bar wanted me to pre-authorize $800 of charges before they would even look at it. I was a bit appalled that I couldn't pay any kind of diagnostic fee.

A moment of silence for the dearly departed MagSafe.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#542

Post by chipperyman573 »

rhizome wrote: post #500
npongratz wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's obvious, and certainly the first thing I'd do upon receiving such a device. But given how Lenovo got caught more than once pushing malware (after promising they'd fix it), I worry the problem could be deeply engrained in their product philosophy, and as such, I don't know that I'd even trust their firmware. But maybe people change, and maybe I'm just being paranoid and depriving myself unnecessarily from hardw…

The harddrive that came with my ThinkPad hasn't seen electricity since it left the factory, I replaced it before I ever turned the laptop on.

The hard drive isn't the only place malware can live (the BIOS would be one example of another place).

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#543

Post by stetrain »

cmiles74 wrote: post #349
scarface74 wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m in no way defending Apple’s keyboards and there are some real issues with tiny bits of dust completely ruining a keyboard, but normal laptops have always been susceptible to even a little liquid damage. But if your coworker couldn’t just go to his manager, tell them what happened and the company paid for it, that says more about the company.

At least for myself, I fully expected Apple to fix the laptop. I had read about these keyboards and their issues, I was really surprised when Genius refused to take it in for warranty repair. I suspect that if we had purchased the extended warranty, there's a good chance it would have been covered. Reading through the text of on their website it seems like this kind of thing might even be somewhat expected (like peop…

Spilling liquid on the keyboard resulting in not being able to power on the machine is different than the sensitive keyboard issues due to debris.

I wouldn't expect Dell to give me a free repair on my XPS if I had "only accidentally spilled a little bit of water in it."

If the problem was really just eating a snack near the laptop resulting in some keys not working right due to crumbs then Apple most likely would have covered that.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#544

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

threeseed wrote: post #115
jgowdy wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm confused. You mean like on a wired mouse, where the cord is constantly exposed to the strain of the movement and is typically just fine for many many years? I have Microsoft Intellimouse devices which are many years old and work perfectly. The differences between a USB plugged in cable and a permenantly attached cable don't seem relevant in this instance.

It's not the cord itself that would be exposed to the strain of the movement. It's the Lightning connector which was never designed to be moved within the socket tens of thousands of times a day.

You just design in a sinuous strain relief channel. Then any craptastic connector will survive.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#545

Post by milhous »

Tim Cook needs to do the right thing and hold a VP accountable for this, as well as for the thermal throttling and T2 bugs, flex cable failure, iPad chassis deformation, AirPower vaporware, etc. Phil Schiller? Dan Riccio? John Ternus? Sounds like Apple needs Bob Mansfield to run the hardware division again.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#546

Post by admax88q »

chrischen wrote: post #528
gnicholas wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spend less than 10% of my time at my computer maxing my processor. I spend more than 90% of my time using the keyboard. I’ve seriously considered selling my 2017 MBP and buying a 2018 MBA. Then I heard the problems still haven’t been solved with that model and nixed that idea. But I would much rather have a slower machine with a reliable/comfortable keyboard than a faster machine with a brittle/uncomfortable one.

You can get the benefits of a faster processor without constantly maxing it out. A faster clocked processor will complete tasks faster. If you’re just browsing the internet, no difference, but if you do any type of compilation the extra cores and speed will make a significant difference. In the case of node and client side development, the extra speed can shave seconds off hot code injection and compilation times on…

> If you’re just browsing the internet, no difference,

Even the modern web continually maxes many processors. Google Docs/Sheets, Slack, Hangouts. "Just browsing the web" has become a compute intensive task.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#547

Post by stuartd »

0az wrote: post #499
gnicholas wrote: post #448

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spend less than 10% of my time at my computer maxing my processor. I spend more than 90% of my time using the keyboard. I’ve seriously considered selling my 2017 MBP and buying a 2018 MBA. Then I heard the problems still haven’t been solved with that model and nixed that idea. But I would much rather have a slower machine with a reliable/comfortable keyboard than a faster machine with a brittle/uncomfortable one.

This is exactly why I went for a 2015 MBP instead of a newer one last year. Having a better keyboard and physical escape/function keys (plus the significantly lower price) outweighed the lack of USB C/Thunderbolt 3. This may have a shorter "tail", in terms of long term utility, but hopefully there'll be a MBP refresh at around that time. If that is still found wanting, I suppose I can join the Thinkpad+Linux club.

I did the same, for the same reason. It’s a joy to use and every time I read one of the (so many) articles on the MB butterfly keyboard, I am reminded that I made the right choice. The 2015 MBP really is the best Mac laptop - which if you want a Mac rather than a Linux box, the best laptop ever - https://marco.org/2017/11/14/best-laptop-ever

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#548

Post by hultner »

hollander wrote: post #501
randallsquared wrote: post #471

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speed and utilization are not the same. My 2018 MBP was a great speed improvement over the 2015 MBP I previously used, even in cases where the 2015 MBP wasn't using all cores (which really rarely happened, since for the workloads I use, multiple Electron apps and Docker for Mac, typing in Slack would start stuttering as soon as multiple cores were in constant use). I don't think it was ever usable enough at 6-7 cores…

If you spend big bucks on a MBP, and still have problems with performance, you could start using the cloud or a home server for that docker stuff. Scaleway has reasonable priced servers, or you buy something like a simple Zotac Mini PC to run as linux server at home.

Do you happen to know any great guide for setting it up properly?

I did it a while back with docker machine but I remember it being quite the hassle and didn't work as smoothly as a locale instance, damn shame since docker is the number obesity leading reason I keep running out of ram on my laptop.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#549

Post by floren »

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #503
npongratz wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to like Thinkpads for their hardware quality, but I cannot get over Lenovo stuffing malware into their systems, even after they got caught. How can I be put at ease?

When I bought my thinkpad I booted directly to the Debian installer via USB and wiped the disk. I get great battery life (check the Arch wiki for tips on your specific machine to fix a few issues that may give it bad battery at first install). The keyboard is wonderful and everything except the fingerprint scanner works great.

I get twenty goddamn hours from my X270 and it's incredible. I never use the fingerprint scanner, so I recommend Thinkpads all the time. Good connectivity too, although I'd appreciate maybe another USB port or two.

Re: Its butterfly keyboard design has failed, but Apple has yet to admit its mistake

#550

Post by avhon1 »

kowdermeister wrote: post #442
camelNotation wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not only are Thinkpad keyboards the most comfortable and satisfying on the market, you can literally pour water on them and it will drain out the bottom of the laptop without ever touching internal components. After using my Thinkpad for about six months, I can't go back. The keyboard is amazing, build quality is rock solid, screen is 4k with 100% RGB, and you can actually upgrade the thing. I buy a laptop because I…

My only complaint with ThinkPads is that they are ugly as hell and I'm not an Apple fanboy. A device should look beautiful, clean and simple that you are looking at all day.

In my eyes, my Thinkpads (an T430 and X40, both deceased :-( ) do look beautiful, clean, and simple.
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