Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

thehill.com

541–550 of 565 posts

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no complaints about the discussion I can see. I have no desire to go through Karma on people who would just rather down vote because they don't like what they read. Personally, I almost never downvote, would much rather engage and have a chat about things. Most of the time that happens here, on this topic it's obviously not. And the whole thing is by no means definitive. I happen to have a very significant amo…

None of this is the slightest bit responsive to the point I made that some people;s response to losing an argument is to engage in violence. There's no law to enforce here, nobody suggested that Lane Davis should be arrested for the holding Nazi opinions. It's a simple observation that the solution to bad speech is not always more speech because people who are engaging in bad speech in bad faith often aren't interest…

As a general policy, we could return basic critical thinking to primary education.

Mine included First Amendment issues along with the following:

Recognition of propaganda forms. Done in the context of ADS at first, then later political media.

Agency in conversation. How to weigh words. Being called an ass by a clown, for example. The most common, basic response is righteous indignation. However, a better response is, "meh", or laughter to better identify the laughable. This was done in the context of ordinary conflict and media reported events.

Bias. There is always bias in media. Objectivity is something expensive and it takes time and people working together to actualize. Is that bias honestly represented? Secondly, how does that bias color conclusions or advocacy present? This was done in the context of news media. Was it from labor point of view or business, other? (Economic) For social, similar questions were asked and material identified.

Today, for example, few Americans realize there is almost no reporting from the labor point of view. There used to be. What jas changed?

Reasoning, fallacies, etc... the basics like what one may find at critical thinking dot org sites today.

My own kids did not get any of that. I provided it.

Regulating speech based on ehat could happen, or blanket assumptions about people being feeble, or some other condition will not end well. I will leave it there.

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#542

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no complaints about the discussion I can see. I have no desire to go through Karma on people who would just rather down vote because they don't like what they read. Personally, I almost never downvote, would much rather engage and have a chat about things. Most of the time that happens here, on this topic it's obviously not. And the whole thing is by no means definitive. I happen to have a very significant amo…

None of this is the slightest bit responsive to the point I made that some people;s response to losing an argument is to engage in violence. There's no law to enforce here, nobody suggested that Lane Davis should be arrested for the holding Nazi opinions. It's a simple observation that the solution to bad speech is not always more speech because people who are engaging in bad speech in bad faith often aren't interest…

As for Lane, human work caries risks.

The control of speech needed to take that stabbing off the table is excessive.

Real conversations do involve real people who will do real things.

What I put here works.

I have done it with a gun pointed right at my chest, loaded, cocked.

That is no joke. And I could argue I had better tools to work with than the father did. Odds are favorable to me in that case too.

I have a solid set of intense experiences and some training in this area to draw on too. Did the father?

Maybe he should have those things. I would gladly fund them as part of my taxes. Money well spent. While at it, mandatory, blanket gun education would do a lot of good too, and in similar ways, for similar reasons, by way of similie here.

To me, bringing up one ugly fail amidst a sea of successes is counterproductive.

It is also rooted in fear of risks.

With people, speech, there are always risks.

Empowering people, doing more early human work will do more to break down those risks than taking a bludgeon to speech will.

Just one of a few reasons I felt it better to just step away.

We may just have to go through a draconian cycle here. I am not happy about that. And it will not play out like well meaning people think.

And I will be there at the peak to assist with the move back.

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#543
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I love you mom, but those people are fucking clowns. How can I help? (Have had this exact exchange. Took a while, but did resolve. Human problems take human work.)

Lane Davis's dad tried that approach, arguing to his son that he (the son) had fallen down a neo-nazi rabbit hole. Davis denounced his dad as a 'leftist pedophile' and stabbed him to death. I could supply a laundry list of examples, but the basic point I'd like to communicate is that once someone signs up to an eliminationist philosophy we have (to misquote Churchill) established what they are, and the only question…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17740517

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At no point I was trying to argue against free speech. Just about the notion that "lie is almost always a matter of perspective". I'm aware there has been criticism of the concept of objective reality in philosophy, but I'm also not aware of any framework of thought that would fit the observable reality better. In fact, all the progress of science and technology, as well as all communications we do with each other, a…

I have no idea how to articulate these notions, please forgive. #1 While I think of myself as a Popperian, I've begun to adopt a "true enough to act now" view of the world. It's close to the notion "a good plan violently executed today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow". Mostly, I'm sick of the debate. I have relatives and friends who are creationists, climate change deniers, supply-siders, etc. Instead of tryin…

Upon reflection, that is truly a great analysis! I just read Larry Sanger's Everipedia proposal, and believe that the concept of trust revocation would be a useful addition.

Would you be interested in fleshing it out as an Everipedia page? If you're not editing Everipedia yet, I can help you with that. Anonymously,if you like. Or I could write the page, with your permission and perhaps input.

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a valid argument though? Of course things should be judged on a case by case basis, and not on dogmatic one size fits all rules. Even courts take context into account for the same action (e.g. whether a murder was in cold blood or premeditated, whether someone stole because they were hungry or just greedy, etc). And, yes, "there is a time and place for stealing someone’s wallet", as well.

But it's equally illegal to kill anybody based on race, class, political belief or religious belief.

That's a comparatively recent law though. Hasn't been always the case (e.g. colonialists used to have "open hunting season" for native populations at certain times and it wasn't at all like killing one of their own race). And I doubt in the 30s South killing a black person was "equally illegal" as killing a white person (if not in law, surely in practical legal outcomes -- people just getting a slap on the wrist).

As for those other things (whether it's equally legally bad to kill someone regardless of "class, political belief or religious belief") all of those have been contested in actual law across societies (including western ones), even 20 and 30 years ago (and tides can always turn one way or another again).

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#547

The content here is quite disgusting, and I certainly do not defend it, but I really take issue with what is happening here in principle. Overall this is similar to a runaway effect that negligence of the environment can have. At a certain point it will be too late to solve the problem i.e. control emissions or oppose this kind of authoritarianism under different circumstances. The very means to do so will either be…

I hope this crowd knows their Joseph Goebbels. "When our enemies say: But we used to grant you freedom of opinion -- yes, you granted it to us, that is no proof that we should do the same for you! That you gave us that just proves how stupid you are!" (source: https://de.wikiquote.org/wiki/Joseph_Goebbels and https://www.sr-mediathek.de/index.php?seite=7&id=37143 ; translation by me)

So take Goebbels' advice? Not sure what you are getting at.

Our enemies are fascists who will take away our rights, therefore anyone suspected of eventually becoming a fascist will have their rights preemptively taken away so that it does not come to that?

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's equally illegal to kill anybody based on race, class, political belief or religious belief.

That's a comparatively recent law though. Hasn't been always the case (e.g. colonialists used to have "open hunting season" for native populations at certain times and it wasn't at all like killing one of their own race). And I doubt in the 30s South killing a black person was "equally illegal" as killing a white person (if not in law, surely in practical legal outcomes -- people just getting a slap on the wrist). As…

Do you have a point? Your comment isn't applicable to the conversation we're having in this thread.

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea how to articulate these notions, please forgive. #1 While I think of myself as a Popperian, I've begun to adopt a "true enough to act now" view of the world. It's close to the notion "a good plan violently executed today is better than a perfect plan tomorrow". Mostly, I'm sick of the debate. I have relatives and friends who are creationists, climate change deniers, supply-siders, etc. Instead of tryin…

Upon reflection, that is truly a great analysis! I just read Larry Sanger's Everipedia proposal, and believe that the concept of trust revocation would be a useful addition. Would you be interested in fleshing it out as an Everipedia page? If you're not editing Everipedia yet, I can help you with that. Anonymously,if you like. Or I could write the page, with your permission and perhaps input.

Thank you for the Everipedia tip. Hmmm, very interesting. Sending you a PM via email.

Re: Microsoft threatens to stop hosting Gab unless posts are removed

#550

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? Andrew Torba is obviously a neo-Nazi.

Again: this was flagged, but Patrick isn't trying to be inflammatory. I think it's pretty reasonable to suggest that about Torba.

It's not even within a football stadium of being reasonable.
Post reply on HN