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LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

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Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#541

Post by ScottBurson »

downandout wrote: post #431
ScottBurson wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do think the caller should be convicted of murder. I'm not sure exactly which charge would be most appropriate for someone who deliberately created a situation in which someone could be killed, and they were. Ah — from the Wikipedia page [0] it looks like felony murder is the right charge. It's certainly at least involuntary manslaughter. I do agree with you, though, that a close look should be taken at the shooter…

>I'm not completely sure, though, based on this article, that I would consider the officer culpable. Police are trained to react quickly and to protect one another. If being trained to “react quickly” involves shooting people when they are not 100% sure the person has a weapon, then they are being trained to commit murder. That will likely be an aspect of the inevitable lawsuit against the police in this incident. Bu…

> the mere fact that they were trained to commit murder does not absolve individual officers of criminal responsibility when they actually murder someone

I don't think I can agree with this. Police departments have policies for when officers should and should not shoot at people. In cases where the policy was followed, I think we have to say that relieves the individual of responsibility.

In this instance, of course I don't know whether the shooting was according to policy. And of course I hope, and expect, that it wasn't. But if it was, then it's the policy that has to change first.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#542

Post by throw7 »

I'd like to know what the facts on the ground were that led to have an roe of shoot to kill. Something did go wrong with the process leading up to this clusterfuck. I hope it's identified and fixed. There _might_ be some change in wichita, but I'm not hopeful nationally.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#544

Post by davemp »

samastur wrote: post #406
davemp wrote: post #377

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently the USA is behind Norway, Finland, and Switzerland in mass shooting deaths per 100k population [1]. For typical gun related homocides it is most certainly correlated with poverty and education. [1]: https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/sTbiw2S8fHl89qyY6AXbohcKkv...

When number of shootings is 1, you are not actually doing useful statistics. It can easily be an aberration.

Mass shootings are almost by definition outliers

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#545

Post by enraged_camel »

r3bl wrote: post #459
enraged_camel wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm laughing at the downvotes. The OP asked what to do if getting swatted and I offered a genuine opinion, apparently this isn't allowed on HN. ;)

> Pray. Even if you aren’t religious. For what? For the SWAT team to do a better job at the scene? For their training to be better in such situations? For 350 million to not prank call the police? Any of these three solutions are better than praying to god to someone who is not religious, and yet, none of them will produce any result what so ever.

I meant it in the sense that there is nothing you can do.

Jesus christ HN can be dense sometimes...

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#546

Post by Dove »

burntwater wrote: post #158
tacomonstrous wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Pretend the cop is a dinosaur or something and sudden movement will provoke him. It's really perverse that I have to train myself to deal safely with a purported practised officer of the law.

This. The burden should be on the few police to be trained well enough to recognize body language, not on the mass population to train how to avoid being shot.

I don't entirely agree. There are lots of situations you have to learn how to navigate safely in society. How to use a crosswalk. How to address a judge. How to prevent house fires.

I think putting the burden of citizen safety 100% on police is like putting the burden of pedestrian safety 100% on cars. Yeah, the driver has greater responsibility and is held to a higher standard of caution... but this sort of thing really is a lot more practical if people know to stay on sidewalks.

I for one want to have police in society, and I want them to be able to deal with very dangerous and violent people as safely as they can. I think needing to know how to safely surrender to them if they mistake me for a dangerous person is a reasonable price to pay.

I don't understand this whole "I shouldn't need to know" perspective. Of course you need to know. Police are part of society, and so we need to understand how to be around them.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#547

Post by __s »

solotronics wrote: post #535
danpalmer wrote: post #99

Having unfortunately seen a police body cam video of an obviously unarmed man being shot, and having read about this one, it seems to be a case of men hitching their trousers up because they aren’t wearing a belt, being mistaken for reaching for a gun. This is a normal thing, it’s an unconscious thing, we do it without thinking so can’t stop when told not to do it. People should not die because they’re wearing loose…

what are we supposed to do exactly?

Wear belts

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#548

Post by bastijn »

wott wrote: post #420
elygre wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is “here”?

According to the nickname, I'd says Netherlands. But it doesn't matter, you can find people from every single country in the world holding the same (mostly fictitious) discourse.

+1 for the Netherlands. Nice job on an irregular name :).

Regarding mostly fictious: we have national television reporting our first aid/response units are being assaulted on their jobs. We have police officers on trial for arresting people who didn't comply simple questions (no crossing orders). We have the generic public joking about public service. Mostly fictious is not what I would call it. The image of our national police is not great. I would say we could have a bit more of the US respect and they can have a bit of our control. Then again, no proof so hard to fight either way.

P.S. I knew I should jot have taken a 13 yo example :(.

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#549

Post by sctb »

enraged_camel wrote: post #545
r3bl wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pray. Even if you aren’t religious. For what? For the SWAT team to do a better job at the scene? For their training to be better in such situations? For 350 million to not prank call the police? Any of these three solutions are better than praying to god to someone who is not religious, and yet, none of them will produce any result what so ever.

I meant it in the sense that there is nothing you can do. Jesus christ HN can be dense sometimes...

Users are rightly downvoting and flagging you for breaking a variety of guidelines. Could you please stop that?

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: LAPD arrests man on suspicion of making deadly swatting call to Wichita police

#550

Post by Dove »

mgkimsal wrote: post #82
Dove wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's reasonable or effective to entirely expect police to solve this problem. Here is the account from the article: Livingston said when the door opened, officers gave Finch commands to put his hands up and walk toward them. He complied for a "very short time" and put his hands back down. He raised them again, and then lowered them for a second time, Livingston said. "The male then turned towards the of…

> the best way to avoid misunderstandings and snap reactions is to move slowly and deliberately in any confrontation. Excellent idea. Let's train/condition 300 million people exactly how they should behave in stressful and life-threatening situations, and put at least part of the blame on them for any deviation from "acceptable" behaviour when put in an unknown situations with guns pointing at them. It would take far…

I really do think teaching people how to be non-threatening would be one of the most effective methods of avoiding tragedy. I know you make light of educating large numbers of people, but there are a lot of things we all know about society in order to be safe. It seems to me that "sudden movements in tense situations provoke violent reaponses" isn't that hard of a thing to learn. Don't we teach people not to run from bears, for example?

I am not saying the guy's death is his fault. I am saying expecting policemen not to react to certain movements just because they can be innocent is not a realistic expectation to place on them. It is safer for everyone if we all just stay calm, de-escalate, act deliberately, sort things out. Flapping around is a good way to look dangerous, and I just think things would be safer if people understood this.

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