The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it • Hacker News Board

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#541

Post by lawpoop » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 8:28 PM UTC

aidos wrote: post #256

lawpoop wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one solution is to hold the vote open for an extended period of time-- weeks, say. Keep an updated tally going at all time. That way, it's not just a high-stakes, one day event. Everyone will have a chance to vote, and nobody can (rightfully) say, "I wish I had voted, it didn't go the way I wanted" or "If I had known, I would have voted". You will know, and there will be time for you to vote still. If I under…

That's an interesting idea, could you change your vote? There was a lot of rain. Flooding / trains cancelled - biggest thunderstorm I've seen in the UK since moving here 13 years ago. In this case I think it probably made a difference, because those that were fighting to leave were more likely to turn out.

I go back and forth on changing your vote.

Arguments for would be learning something new, or breaking information during the period of the vote. For instance, if a news story broke about a politician, or something hidden in the wording of a bill would be highlighted, then one might want to change their vote.

Also, propaganda/information campaigns would ramp up towards the end of the vote, which could be good or bad.

Arguments against are basically logistical burden and opportunity for fraud. It's simpler for one vote, cast in stone.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#542

Post by ZenoArrow » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 8:28 PM UTC

sliverstorm wrote: post #464

manarth wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is being widely reported: "The higher the level of education, the higher the EU support". > "According the polls, university graduates were the most likely people to want to remain in the EU - while those with a GCSE or equivalent as their highest qualification were more likely to back Brexit." > "Those with no education tended to vote Brexit" Source: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/06/24/eu-referendum-how.…

That doesn't really mean "smart people vote for remain", could just as easily be because EU membership has different impact for different classes.

During the UK EU referendum, I realised something about politics... When people don't know enough about the issues, they'll vote based on the emotional framing of the issues. This makes them incredibly predictable, and I'm talking about people on both sides of the debate. On the Leave side, uninformed voters were drawn to a protectionist mentality. On the Remain side, people were drawn towards a collaborative mentality.

If people are happy to be low information voters, it almost doesn't matter what the other side is voting for, you'll never consider it, you'll just fall in line with what your peers are likely to vote for. There are many formally educated people I saw fall for the low information voter trap, so again this cuts across the board.

If I ever run for office, my lead policy is going to be free puppies for everyone. If people aren't smart enough to take opposing viewpoints seriously then you may as well cut to the chase and appeal directly to their emotions, and pretty much everyone loves puppies. ;-)

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#543

Post by lawpoop » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 8:32 PM UTC

mamon wrote: post #430

lawpoop wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think one solution is to hold the vote open for an extended period of time-- weeks, say. Keep an updated tally going at all time. That way, it's not just a high-stakes, one day event. Everyone will have a chance to vote, and nobody can (rightfully) say, "I wish I had voted, it didn't go the way I wanted" or "If I had known, I would have voted". You will know, and there will be time for you to vote still. If I under…

There is a huge logistics issue with the poll spanning more than one day: cast votes must be kept safe. The longer the voting period is the more expensive it becomes and more prone to tampering results.

I agree with you about the logistics; it might be a better idea for an online voting system (which carries its own set of concerns).

However, assuming one cannot change their vote, I disagree that there is more opportunity for tampering. Each count of the vote is basically a statistical sampling, and it should stay relatively the same.

Here in the US, all elections are handled locally, at the county level. If there is fraud, it's hard to detect the day of the election, so the fraudulent vote becomes part of the official ballot count. Sure, months later, poll workers, voters, and politicians can be prosecuted for election fraud, but at that point, the election has already long been decided. It's very rare that a real recount is held that becomes the actual result. It's easy for fraud to become the accepted results.

However, with a long voting period with daily rolling counts, there is more opportunity for scrutiny, statistical methods, recounts, etc. If anything funny happens, it will be easier to detect with more time, and prevent it from becoming the official results.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#544

Post by pessimizer » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 8:34 PM UTC

areyousure wrote: post #538

krapp wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't understand how average Americans can buy into this idea that Trump is some kind of outsider. It's because Trump is politically incorrect. He dresses like the just got off shift at the factory and makes jokes about his dick size and most importantly, when he speaks, he doesn't come off as being more informed or articulate than his supporters. All it takes for a politician to convince Americans they're not par…

> He dresses like the just got off shift at the factory This comment baffles me, because one of the most consistent aspects of Trump's image is always being in a suit and tie. I just searched for "Donald Trump" on Google Images. Nearly every picture has him in a suit and tie. The first wherein he was visibly not wearing a tie or bowtie was #70 (but he was still in a suit). #139 was the second picture lacking a tie (b…

It's part of the elite narrative about what confuses rubes, so Trump must dress that way.

The reason people are voting for Trump is because he's as openly racist as the Republicans have gotten so far. This is the same reason why Democrats haven't won whites since Kennedy. The question is whether Trump's supporters will suspect that his newly found overtly racist anti-establishment stance is a deception before the election and not turn out, or whether Hillary will make enough Democrats sick that they won't turn out.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#545

Post by davidf18 » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 8:38 PM UTC

cname wrote: post #474

davidf18 wrote: post #263

The BrExit vote was caused by the same problem that enables Trump (and Sanders) to win so many votes. The British Elites, like the Republic Elites are ignoring the pain caused to the working class through trade agreements and (in the case of BrExit) immigration from poorer parts of Europe. In different ways the EU integration put an additional burden on the already struggling British working class. As a specific exam…

I'm confused. Are you saying that Trump is not part of what you're calling the "Republic Elite"? Or that he's not part of the billionaire class? That he's not highly connected? Are you saying he actually cares about the working class? I don't understand how average Americans can buy into this idea that Trump is some kind of outsider. He rubs shoulders with all kinds of rich, powerful, and connected people, including…

Trump is very wealthy and he rubs shoulders with the elite in our country, but he is certainly not a member of the Republican Elite which includes people like Paul Ryan, Republican Wall Street billionaires such as Paul Singer, and most of the Republican candidates that Trump beat (Jeb Bush, Cruz, Rubio, ....). The Republican Elite did not listen to suffering of the Republican electorate which is why they lost to Trump. Somewhere along the way, the Republic Elite lost sight of the fact that it is policies that appeal to voters than win elections and not donations from the wealthy.

Eric Cantor was the second most powerful person in The House of Representatives until he lost the primary to a political unknown. He lost because Republicans do not want illegal immigration. They are not against immigration but believe that people should only immigrate legally. Cantor did not listen to his voters and he lost. Remarkably, the Republican Elite ignored this loss and backed illegal immigration. Only Trump came out against illegal immigration.

The Republican Elite are so out of touch and this country deserves better leadership from the "Party of Lincoln."

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#546

Post by JoeAltmaier » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 8:38 PM UTC

spacehome wrote: post #425

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #100

You decide to go on a trip, next you get out a map. This makes perfect sense, and in no way reflects poorly on the British people.

I might get out a map before I commit 100% to my travel plans.

Right. And they are far from 100% committed. They have 2 years to change their minds. This was just a first step -to determine if the British public had the will to proceed.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#547

Post by jacquesm » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 8:42 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #395

keithpeter wrote: post #356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The referendum is advisory and not binding. I think this particular Golem has too much momentum now to simply decline the advice of the electorate, however it did occur to me that Cameron's 3 month delay in applying Section 50 would allow the attention of the public to be distracted to some extent.

> The referendum is advisory and not binding. OTOH, the referendum did kill the Britain-EU agreement on new terms -- as that was expressly conditioned on a "Remain" vote -- so while it doesn't legally obligate the government to withdraw from the EU, in addition to creating a strong public expectation (both in the UK and in the rest of the EU) of withdrawal, it also makes the conditions for staying in the EU worse for…

But not worse than leaving and coming back cap-in-hand 5 or 10 years down the road. And as England, not as the UK.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#548

Post by pessimizer » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 8:44 PM UTC

twoquestions wrote: post #12

"People of $MY_IDENTITY believe a thing, so I'll vote for it no matter what $OTHERS say!" I thought before reading that story that the above was a bad caricature, but holy shit. How can you not know what the EU is if you're in a member country and can read? It's like an American not knowing what Congress is!

If you google "What is cancer?" after being diagnosed with it, does that mean that you don't know what cancer is, or that you don't know about it in the detail that you now expect to need?

The upper middle class think that everyone who works with their hands is a failure, and are willing to believe the worst about them.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#549

Post by krapp » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 8:46 PM UTC

areyousure wrote: post #538

krapp wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I don't understand how average Americans can buy into this idea that Trump is some kind of outsider. It's because Trump is politically incorrect. He dresses like the just got off shift at the factory and makes jokes about his dick size and most importantly, when he speaks, he doesn't come off as being more informed or articulate than his supporters. All it takes for a politician to convince Americans they're not par…

> He dresses like the just got off shift at the factory This comment baffles me, because one of the most consistent aspects of Trump's image is always being in a suit and tie. I just searched for "Donald Trump" on Google Images. Nearly every picture has him in a suit and tie. The first wherein he was visibly not wearing a tie or bowtie was #70 (but he was still in a suit). #139 was the second picture lacking a tie (b…

Wow. Apparently you went through the effort of checking 700 photos and indexing them one by one just to disprove one sentence out of my comment. That's true dedication to the cause.

I guess you're right though - I went a bit too far on that. I could swear I remember him dressing down for a number of interviews but I can't actually find pictures of it so mea culpa.

Re: The British are Googling what the E.U. is, hours after voting to leave it

#550

Post by capote » Fri, Jun 24, 2016, 8:46 PM UTC

throwanem wrote: post #199

capote wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't. But if Bremainers were googling it it's inconsequential. It's the Brexiters who google it that tell us something about the vote.

But you don't know either way, so you're just drawing conclusions from outright ignorance here. That doesn't seem like a useful way to spend time.

I spend much of my time in unuseful ways, and so do you.

Outright ignorance is definitely pushing it. It's a guess, but very much an educated guess that it's mostly Brexiters who are googling it. Bremainers tend to be better informed, so they are less likely to be doing last minute (or in this case post-last minute) googling about the issue.