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216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

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Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#531

Post by opello »

ProllyInfamous wrote: post #456
newsoftheday wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We replaced our old TV recently with an LG and are really liking it. We do not let it on our network though and keep networking functionality disabled. It's basically a monitor for our Kubuntu Linux laptop sitting behind it. We stream with Chrome and use a mouse and the TV remote for audio. Once in a while we actually watch something on TV itself too. It'd be nice I guess if the built in TV app had DVR but if it does…

I'm still nervously holding my breath for the first disclosure that a TV manufacturer is using Amazon's distributed Sidewalk Network (or perhaps mobile vehicles, cell-SIMs, LoRa) to remotely gather all that viewing data they've subsidized into your artificially-low TV purchase price . But they've been calling "crazy?" for decades.

This exactly. Surely some sort of IoT mesh networking will allow exfiltration of data even without having configured your own device.

I'm hopeful that there will be sufficient distrust that "jailbreaking" or "rooting" TV controller boards will be turnkey enough to move to something like OpenWrt or GrapheneOS but for TVs.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#532

Post by herpdyderp »

delecti wrote: post #428
noir_lord wrote: post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Works til they put a 5g modem in the damn things. My Samsung asked for internet access and I just laughed and said nope. It exists to displays pixels from a Linux box, utterly sick of living in a world where "is my TV manufacturer bugging our house?" Is a thing anyone has to ask.

> Works til they put a 5g modem in the damn things. Okay, but it does work until then. "Things could change in the future" is definitionally true. Never connect the TV in the first place, and you don't need to physically alter the hardware, firmware, or TOS agreements.

How do we know that they're not already putting 5G modems in them?

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#533

Post by Lerc »

josuepeq wrote: post #433
korzinka wrote: post #107

I've bought an LG Smart TV 5 years ago, read t&c where I was supposed to grant them any data they wanted, decided to disagree and kept all network functions disabled. I was ridiculed by my friends for that. At some point, I thought - maybe I'm really crazy to do so? Who am I, a caveman, a luddite? Oh well, I'm not. Not a bad tv though, many HDMI ports!

It’s okay to be a luddite. Not everything needs to have an interface. Got into a spat with a manager at my apartment complex because I refused to install their app just to deal with a maintenance issue. He was like, “I don’t see the problem, you have to use the Latch app to open your apartment door.” To which I replied, “No, I have the door keypad code memorized.” Just like I don’t need an app to make a log of exit/e…

It's not about being a luddite. In many respects I consider it the opposite. It's engaging with technology in a way that demands standards of behaviour and performance.

I don't want the new thing because it is the new thing. I want new things that are better.

People accept abusive technology because they consider that's just the way it is with this new thing. It's a failure to understand what should be considered unacceptable.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#534

Post by ieee2 »

korzinka wrote: post #107

I've bought an LG Smart TV 5 years ago, read t&c where I was supposed to grant them any data they wanted, decided to disagree and kept all network functions disabled. I was ridiculed by my friends for that. At some point, I thought - maybe I'm really crazy to do so? Who am I, a caveman, a luddite? Oh well, I'm not. Not a bad tv though, many HDMI ports!

Just thinking, if this is an issue, how you can dare to buy a modern car with embedded SIM card and GPS? :)

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#535

Post by JoshTriplett »

patrakov wrote: post #302
JoshTriplett wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be lovely. Unfortunately, to the best of my knowledge, nobody sells (for instance) high-quality 65"+ OLED non-"smart" TVs. "dumb TV" options are limited to older display technology.

Try https://www.aorus.com/monitors/AORUS-FO48U/Key-Features - yes, it's a bit too small for you.

Literally my current computer monitor, but no, does not work as a living room TV. (Also, would not recommend as a monitor; aggressive ABL and persistent messages about turning off for maintenance.)

When I said 55+ I was talking about the whole size category larger than that, including 65, 77, etc.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#536

Post by mey »

ticulatedspline wrote: post #522

I'm surprised this hasn't run afoul of all-party wiretap laws. Even if you could waive your own rights via ToS other people in the house may not have agreed. Theoretically I could see LG or even the TV's owner being culpable. I'd love to see that case hit the media. Average citizen jailed over wiretap violations because they let their TV record a guest.

How do guests/children/people in public spaces consent to it? It's a gross violation.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#537

Post by washelterskelte »

hvb2 wrote: post #488
kolinko wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on jurisdiction, just because someone wrote something in a contract doesn’t mean it’s binding. In Poland/EU we have an (ever growing) list of forbidden clauses that even when written and signed by consumer are null and void. And I think these can be enacted retroactively - when corporations invent new shady clauses, government steps in and tells them these are invalid. This helps to even out the consumer-corp…

> we have an (ever growing) list of forbidden clauses that even when written and signed by consumer are null and void I'm pretty sure that's true almost everywhere. Law beats contract. The real question is how strong the laws are. In the US not so much because of small government and stuff, especially in red states.

The law matters very little when enforcing it in court often means a multiyear lawsuit against an opponent which employs an army of attorneys, has effectively unlimited amounts of money, will likely cost you ruinious sums of money, and for an outcome that's far from guaranteed.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#538

Post by godelski »

ticulatedspline wrote: post #522

I'm surprised this hasn't run afoul of all-party wiretap laws. Even if you could waive your own rights via ToS other people in the house may not have agreed. Theoretically I could see LG or even the TV's owner being culpable. I'd love to see that case hit the media. Average citizen jailed over wiretap violations because they let their TV record a guest.

On top of that, the first few minutes of the video suggests it captures your neighbors' device and IP information.

I'm sure the ToS has some BS about you being required to inform any guests, but what if your TV is just recording your neighbors because they are close enough?

Just wait, I'm sure the "solution" will be that TVs start displaying reminders that you're being recorded...

Is our inability to innovate in technology really so bad that we have to just chase more and more spying? Consumers don't want these things. Why can't we innovate on things that consumers actually want? Remember, there was a time where we could build good technology, tech that people wanted, and make buckets of money doing it. That should be our goal, not some cyberpunk dystopia. Honestly it feels like anytime we try to innovate now some manager says "don't make things complicated" or some other dumb excuse, but maybe worse is that peers (other engineers) say "but what's the value" (they always stress that they mean monetary, not utility)? Feels like monkeys attacking each other for trying to get the banana...

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#539

Post by EA-3167 »

rpdillon wrote: post #398
korzinka wrote: post #107

I've bought an LG Smart TV 5 years ago, read t&c where I was supposed to grant them any data they wanted, decided to disagree and kept all network functions disabled. I was ridiculed by my friends for that. At some point, I thought - maybe I'm really crazy to do so? Who am I, a caveman, a luddite? Oh well, I'm not. Not a bad tv though, many HDMI ports!

I have a similar reaction from folks when I don't trust services/devices. Most telling moment was when I refused to upload my license to LinkedIn because I lost 2FA (token on phone, phone destroyed). Microsoft assured me they would "delete the license as soon as it was verified". I've written too many software systems for too many companies, and I do not believe them . Of course, they'd outsourced to AU10TIX, which d…

Same here when they find out I’ve never had an FB/IG/X etc account. As though having that crap in your life is somehow mandatory.

People who make poor choices love to pretend that they had no choice at all.

Re: 216M Spy TVs – The LG Smart TV Problem [video]

#540

Post by asnelt »

skerit wrote: post #325
Sophira wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, you're not crazy. I'm also someone who actually reads terms documents, because I find that they're often the only thing that will be truthful about a company's intentions. And keeping it completely disconnected from the internet should be the default, in my opinion.

I never understood why any of the smartness had to be built into the TV in the first place. Sure, it's useful for the first year, and then the seriously underpowered hardware they installed into it will have trouble with just about anything. I bought a Philips Ambilight OLED TV probably over 8 years now. Brilliant tv, great quality, I still see no reason to replace it at all. But its built in AndroidTV is garbage.

I hear you. This is exactly the reason why I have a digital signage display rather than a Smart TV.
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