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Why does Opus 5 feel worse to work with?

mun-logadan.github.io

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Re: Why does Opus 5 feel worse to work with?

#531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it feels like reading an impression of a literature book by a high school English class’s most overconfident student who’s only ever read LinkedIn-speak. Claude is very much the “stupid person’s idea of an intelligent person”[0] which, I suspect, is why it is so popular. It certainly explains why half the internet is huge chunks of Claude-authored gibberish copied and pasted and published. If people didn’t think it…

there's a wide array of assessments when it comes to reading comprehension. the one you refer to, the GRA, sets the 'sixth grade level' as whether or not a reader understands the author's main points, is able to answer conceptual questions related to the text, and then apply those to relevant situations. beyond this level is the ability to essentially be skeptical of a text and to know how to critically analyze it. s…

I’m inherently skeptical of big walls of text like this these days.

(So here’s a big wall of text of my own!)

However, a lot of what is written here makes sense.

And particularly “if your comprehension level stops [here] you get 'big words in complex sentence structure sounds smart and right so it is smart and right' even if the reasoning and process is poor”

This is exactly the problem.

And another point you make:

> but the sycophancy of modern day LLMs is an actual danger that enables more harm than good

I don’t think it is necessarily the sycophancy that is the biggest problem (though that is definitely a problem) but rather the combination of authoritative sounding text plus “complete answers” which sound wholly believable but are deeply flawed unless you have domain expertise.

I moderate a forum that deals with people who face a relatively common but somewhat complex (and nuanced) set of legal problems.

The purpose of the forum is peer support, shared experience (“lived experience”) and community.

It’s not legal advice, though moderators will sometimes step in to highlight relevant legal resources (e.g. case law/precedent or primary legislation/instruments).

Prior to AI infecting the forum someone would post their problem, people would respond with their often incomplete or poorly communicated thoughts, the OP would ask more questions - or argue - and a dialogue would occur. That created a community and people would post updates and ask more questions and find common shared experience. Many of them became correspondents with each other and some became actual friends.

In the past 12-18 months the discourse has changed from “here is my personal experience and here is what I did” to “here’s a bunch of stuff an AI says and I’m pretending it is me giving advice”.

Almost without exception the person who has started the thread will react positively to the AI generated content, even when it is egregiously incorrect - but won’t ask questions.

More problematically, these AI posters will often argue specific incontestable points of law “because I asked ChatGPT/Grok/Claude and it says this” and ChatGPT clearly cannot be wrong. And the border of precedence seems to be ChatGPT, Grok and then Claude some way behind.

I’m slowly seeing a pushback from people as “normies” begin to spot AI. But it’s ruined a community because the advice sounds so authoritative and complete that people won’t argue or ask questions.

As a result we have banned AI generated posts and remove repeat infringers.

That’s significantly reduced the volume of posting (below what it was pre-AI) but has significantly increased the value the members are getting.

Re: Why does Opus 5 feel worse to work with?

#532
post #524
post #12

The single biggest annoyance with Opus 5 is that it writes too elliptically. Sentences that orbit a point, then jump to it like it's a revealed insight. Unnecessarily abstract phraseology. Constantly using inanimate nouns as the subjects in sentences in order to unlock variety in verb choice, especially when it helps construct a sentence where the real action can 'land' like a surprise at the end. It is definitely mo…

Since reasoning tokens are just text, I think the models have learned to squeeze in some computation in their output writing as well. So they're incentivized to be correct but long-winded, as it gives them more time to think. It's kind of the equivalent of filler words for humans, except LLMs can actually word-vomit something intelligible.

Right, but could that also be because ... the more long-winded they are, the more you pay for their output.

Re: Why does Opus 5 feel worse to work with?

#534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its a little too much.... I have to ask it to explain some of the terms in the context they are used and I am getting tired of it. 'Seam', 'overload', 'spine'.... having to mentally 'reinterpret/flatten' the sentence is tedious. When asked to re-explain it starts with some half apology. Then, on the next query it does it all over again.

What’s killing me is that the vernacular is creeping into my coworkers’ speech patterns too.

[deleted]

Re: Why does Opus 5 feel worse to work with?

#535
post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I notice the models with reasoning can conflate “internal” (or subagent) discussions with external (i.e. me). So it is accurately indicating “I’ve had this discussion before” but incorrectly asserting who it was with. My understanding of how “thinking”works is limited though, and given the reduced visibility into the thinking traces, it is harder to tell if this is actually happening or if these are imaginary discuss…

Oh, that's interesting - because that's absolutely what's happening in my experience. If I look at the thinking (which seems to have become unavailable in Opus 5 a lot of the time, but was present - and often useful - in 4.8/4.6) you're right - it's having the discussion with itself, and seems unable to distinguish that discussion from discussions with me. BUT it also seems to be related to the length of the chat - t…

Interesting. So if the LLM is having a discussion with itself, am I paying for the tokens it uses for that?

Re: Why does Opus 5 feel worse to work with?

#536
post #12

The single biggest annoyance with Opus 5 is that it writes too elliptically. Sentences that orbit a point, then jump to it like it's a revealed insight. Unnecessarily abstract phraseology. Constantly using inanimate nouns as the subjects in sentences in order to unlock variety in verb choice, especially when it helps construct a sentence where the real action can 'land' like a surprise at the end. It is definitely mo…

Yes. I’m not particularly dense but lately the walls of text I get back turn my brain in knots. When I start feeling my brain knot, I know I need to say something along the lines of “I need you to explain this very simply, with examples.” Only then can I parse the results without all the mental weightlifting. On more than one occasion my mind has wandered into “is this purposeful to get me to spend more tokens?” terr…

Do you read (and enjoy reading) novels? I think it is just a modern addiction to soundbites. I know I do it myself, if the text is long and unstructured, I just skim through a few sentences, done!

Re: Why does Opus 5 feel worse to work with?

#538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s a strange feeling as a native English speaker to read the entire sentence and know every word, for the sentence to be entirely grammatically correct, and still have no idea what it’s trying to communicate. Another problem is that it will open up all sorts of tangents about nits that it encountered, but it will often not tell you that it’s a nit or give you adequate context to realize that this paragraph is excee…

I think it’s no longer speaking human language. It used to, when it was mostly or entirely trained with imitation learning of human-generated text. Now it’s increasingly trained with RLVR, and there’s far less optimization pressure on actually speaking English (or Punjabi or Mandarin). It still uses English words and syntax in its output, but the semantics are drifting more and more. It’s basically speaking in a code…

Alien Slop Intelligence

Re: Why does Opus 5 feel worse to work with?

#539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I’m not particularly dense but lately the walls of text I get back turn my brain in knots. When I start feeling my brain knot, I know I need to say something along the lines of “I need you to explain this very simply, with examples.” Only then can I parse the results without all the mental weightlifting. On more than one occasion my mind has wandered into “is this purposeful to get me to spend more tokens?” terr…

Do you read (and enjoy reading) novels? I think it is just a modern addiction to soundbites. I know I do it myself, if the text is long and unstructured, I just skim through a few sentences, done!

Oh, yes. I read a great deal. I'm not opposed to lengthy write-ups and will slow down to read through them, assuming they're clear and parseable.

My issue with whatever has happened with Opus 5 is the output is not direct, straightforward, or clear about whatever is being conveyed. I don't want Proust when I'm getting information about the follow-up from a build I just requested, and I'm wasting tokens and time by asking the model to repeat itself using simple language.

Re: Why does Opus 5 feel worse to work with?

#540
post #428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything that claude writes fits into the same aesthetic structure. The aesthetic is that of an expert slowly revealing an insight to the user. The actual content doesn't matter. - "Introduction that rephrases your prompt." - "3 paragraphs, with one section of bullet points" - "The Twist" - "The Bottom Line" It's really obvious once you see it. Every single prompt, from a quantum physics question to a mundane obser…

You're right, and the load-bearing part of the argument is not what you think it is. Two ambiguities worth resolving before moving on: whether what you wrote also applies to ChatGPT, and whether you have custom instructions set up. Failure mode worth flagging explicitly: I didn't read TFA. (I'm becoming allergic to how these things write).

I am curious why LLM writing has such an uncanny valley feel to it. Like if I was talking to a person who constantly used a phrase they liked I would notice it and it is possible I might get irritated by it, but I wouldn’t necessarily.

In high school I had a teacher that would say “that type of thing” a lot. One time my friend and I counted it during one class period and he averaged to use the phrase every 48 seconds on average. It was funny, but it never irritated us.

And this is just one example of I am sure thousands I have personally experienced where a friend, family member, or coworker has a peculiar way of speaking and it at most feels odd but not annoying. Yet when I see an emdash now I instantly feel irritated.

And I say this as someone who actively enjoys using Claude and other LLMs, including coding, casual research, or even having it explain pop culture phenomenon or sociology research to me.

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