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Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school
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Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school
#532[dead]
Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school
#533The problem is they were two decades late digitizing the classroom. Now we're dealing with the aftermath with the educational system still not being capable of keeping up with societal progress.
Two decades late? So they should have brought computers to primary school in the 70’s? Teach them how to connect into a mainframe from a terminal?
Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school
#534Earlier quoted context omitted.
The obvious way to square this circle is to go back to how things used to be: less emphasis on coursework and more on old-fashioned tests in an examination environment with just pen and paper. You can cheat on your homework all you like, but you'll completely fail the exams. On the other hand, students who use LLMs to augment their learning will do fine
> You can cheat on your homework all you like, but you'll completely fail the exams This might sound principled, but we need to recognize that school administrators are incentivised to have as few kids as possible fail their exams; and consequently, so are the teachers. Either exams will change, or the teaching will change.
People keep bringing this up as though it’s a counter argument.
Yes, things will have to change. That’s the idea.
Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school
#535Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Kids can read, write, and comprehend text at 8 A sizable portion of the US adult population effectively can't read, write and comprehend text. https://nces.ed.gov/surveys/piaac/2023/national_results.asp for 2023: > Between 2017 and 2023, there were increases in the percentages of adults performing at the lowest proficiency level (Level 1 or below) in both literacy and numeracy: in literacy this percentage increased…
A notable effect that skews those numbers a bit is that the test for literacy is often given in English only, meaning any people in the US who can read and write Spanish but not English are counted as illiterate. (It's slightly more complex than this, some states let you take it in Spanish, some have the option but still usually give it in English most of the time, but the effect is the same)
That's a really good catch. It looks like that 28% figure is specifically Level 1 or below in English literacy, which makes that number a whole lot less interesting for evaluating education levels.
I care about ability to comprehend text in someone's fluent language. The PIAAC figures don't appear to measure that.
Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school
#536Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is definitely what's going to happen. But there is still a problem - people (not just children) are fundamentally lazy and put things off. People always leave assignments until the last minute. I used to smoothly transition from "I've got plenty of time, no need to start" to "there's not enough time to do it, there's no point starting". They will 100% just use AI for the whole year and then panic and fail the ex…
In what countries were the exams only once a year? When I grew up in the 90s in Sweden we would have tests and exams frequently, usually at the end of each module. This continued all the way through university. I think we had 3 separate exams for the first math course (which lasted a quarter of a year, so roughly one exam per month). (Though they didn't give formal grades for the first several years of elementary sch…
In Poland, that's how it worked at unis. We had a lot of subjects where we had only one big exam at the end and your grade depended on it.
Before uni though, we would get a grade or two every week, be it from short tests, classwork, homework or exams.
Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school
#537Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and the best technology ever invented for learning. This has been tested, many times over, and I have yet to see convincing evidence this is the case. In fact, despite this industry being on the scale of trillions of dollars, I bet you have also not seen convincing evidence of your statement. Because those trillions of dollars aren’t going into research (well they are, but not into good research) it goes into propa…
Dude, just use it to learn something. It's obviously true. Everyone uses AI all the time now. People's impressions are not mediated by marketing.
> Ask a question.
> Ask two follow-up questions.
> Ask about a seeming contradiction between the original answer and the answer to the second follow-up question.
> Get congratulated for raising such a great point and get parroted back your objection as a "correction."
Useful as a learning aid if applied cautiously but maybe not the "best thing ever."
Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school
#538I just had a discussion with 10 to 12 years old kids today. They are not using AI to learn, they are using it to cheat. It's not a moral judgement, it's what they, themselves, told me today in front of their peers. Initially they claimed it was an aid to get homework done, then their own peers asked few questions to clarify and they themselves came to the conclusion (after quite some pushback and mental gymnastic) that it was indeed to cheat.
So... ask kids themselves, see what they do and what they say, it's fascinating.
Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school
#539Imo in elementary school they should not be using computers outside of a dedicated class.
Computer literacy.
Re: Norway imposes near ban on AI in elementary school
#540Earlier quoted context omitted.
So let me see if I get this: we need AI in Norwegian schools so immigrants don’t have to learn Norwegian or English, or else child protective services will take away their children? It isn’t so much that you and I disagree. It is more that you disagree with reality. To the extent you are aware of reality.
> or English I never said english, just Norwegian. Many people are fine with english only education, but goverment will still demand Norwegian lessons. > we need AI in Norwegian schools so immigrants don’t have to learn No, you need AI so kids who do not speak Norwegian, can learn to read and write. It is more important than forcing them into Norwegian first. AI also comes to spotlight with homeschooling. > else chil…
You offer no concrete explanation of how AI will magically remove the language barrier. Have you ever taught a class? How, in practice would you make language go away? In concrete terms. Exactly how do you envision interaction between teacher and student and between students happening? Again, in plain practical terms that can be implemented easily?
Teaching isn’t just about delivering a monologue. Even at university level. It is about connecting and interacting with people. Or else people would derive no more benefit from education than simply reading a list of curriculum books and hand in papers.
How do you envision that this plays out, right now, with AI, when teaching at a K-12 and high school level? Which is much more demanding because you are doing far more than just throwing knowledge and facts at people.
You don’t know what you are talking about which makes you invent fantasies that have no contact with concrete, observable reality. But rather than realize that you are talking nonsense and perhaps educate yourself and think things through, you just carry on.
Again, look at what the original post was about, and what corner you have painted yourself into. Did you, at any point, ask yourself if you had gone off the rails somewhere?