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Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

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Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#531

Post by JumpCrisscross »

kelnos wrote: post #501
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Homogeneous in the modern use What does it mean if it includes heterogenous populations from linguistic, historic, religious and even cultural backgrounds?

I think they mean racial/ethnic.

> they mean racial/ethnic

"In early modern Switzerland, the Swiss Confederacy was a pact between independent states within the Holy Roman Empire. The populations of the states of Central Switzerland considered themselves ethnically or even racially separate: Martin Zeiller in Topographia Germaniae (1642) reports a racial division even within the canton of Unterwalden, the population of Obwalden being identified as 'Romans', and that of Nidwalden as 'Cimbri' (viz. Germanic), while the people of Schwyz were identified as of Swedish ancestry, and the people of Uri were identified as 'Huns or Goths.'

Modern Switzerland is atypical in its successful political integration of a multiethnic and multilingual populace" [1].

I know plenty of Swiss-for-generations Swiss whose complexions would not have passed as white a hundred years ago.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swiss_people#Cultural_history_...

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#532

Post by [deleted] »

pyuser583 wrote: post #529
sashank_1509 wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’d disagree. I’m not American or British but and in my experience Americans or British are the least ethnically biased people on the planet. Any other group, I could believe that they are biased but not Americans, or British. Something in their particular culture right now.

It isn’t just a lack of ethnic bias, it’s a belief in capitalism or professionalism or “enlightened self-interest”: hire the best person for the job, and everyone will be better off.

[deleted]

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#533

Post by unbeli »

mahkeiro wrote: post #329
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is only about the Schengen, Switzerland is not a part of the EU, and even before the Schengen, the borders between the EU and Switzerland weren't heavily controlled. I got in trouble at German airport for going by train from Lausanne to Milan, and then plane to Berlin, I had no entry step into the Schengen because they didn't bother doing that on trains (pre-Schengen). Everything else is negotiated under separat…

Switzerland was part of Schengen from day one… New EU Entry exit/system will put CH in the same boat as UK with mandatory control at the border with scan of face and finger print + travel authorization. Switzerland would be completely locked. But some people are going to be happy as it would mean no more grocery shopping on the other side of the border.

> Switzerland was part of Schengen from day one

I say! That's news to most.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#534

Post by dpark »

sashank_1509 wrote: post #488
meken wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m an American and I just had the thought - if I was working in Japan at a Japanese company and I had the opportunity to hire, would I have a bias to hire other Americans? Honestly probably, since I understand them the best.

I’d disagree. I’m not American or British but and in my experience Americans or British are the least ethnically biased people on the planet. Any other group, I could believe that they are biased but not Americans, or British. Something in their particular culture right now.

You’re responding to an American who says he’d be biased towards Americans and telling him he’s wrong.

Maybe Americans are the least biased (though being an American I am not so sure) but that doesn’t mean we aren’t biased (even if sometimes for legitimate reasons like ease of communication).

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#535

Post by JumpCrisscross »

throwaway85825 wrote: post #413
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Due to geography Swiss city states were able to maintain their independence and resist incorporation into larger principalities and subsequent empires Swiss territory has been part of, variously, the Roman Empire, various Germanic kingdoms, the Carolingian Empire, the HRE and Napoleonic France. Swiss independence was really only enshrined at the Congress of Vienna, I believe at the courtesy of Metternich. Of Austri…

>source Arguably common knowledge but if you must. https://scholarsarchive.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=...

Thank you. If the source is correct, and I have no reason to doubt it, the Founders were operating on bad information. Napoleon wasn't the "first successful foreign invasion" of the Confederation, unless we're being cute about how the HRE was organised.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#536

Post by breakyerself »

aprilthird2021 wrote: post #470
jansport123 wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

seems to be a common concern amongst the local population everywhere "X identity is hiring only X identity"

Because it's an unfalsifiable claim. If you need to bring in highly skilled people and most of them come from X Y or Z, it will be near impossible to distinguish in-group preference from a continuation of skilled immigration which for most countries that practice it, is beneficial for the economy. Also hiring is often based on trust and networks. People refer others to their company and jobs. That trust tends to work…

There's no such requirement to hire proportional amounts of every ethnicity. There are requirements not to discriminate. Which isn't the same thing.

When companies do make an effort to give everyone a fair shot there's a tendency for mediocre white men to lose out to more qualified minorities. The companies get better employees and more diverse perspectives.

Then those white men feel spurned. They imagine they weren't hired because they're white. It's an easier pill to swallow and then the next thing you know DEI is the great Satan of low IQ white men.

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#539

Post by yogorenapan »

jansport123 wrote: post #382
kuerbel wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also swiss here. So many people seem to think that this is about refugees. Wrong. It's about Europeans. Mostly Germans. They are educated and highly skilled and for some swiss, that's a problem. They blame them for not finding a job or an appartement. Just read the comments on inside paradeplatz, you can translate with any llm, on a post about the referendum. A subset of the swiss Middle class has decided that they d…

seems to be a common concern amongst the local population everywhere "X identity is hiring only X identity"

I think it's pretty logical, though perhaps it is correlation rather than causation.

Say I am hiring as a native English speaker in a Chinese company (while of course still knowing enough Mandarin to survive) and I have 3 candidates, one of whom also speaks English fluently. I would definitely be biased towards the English speaker, because I would work better with them.

Now, it doesn't really matter what their ethnicity was, but there is a higher likelihood of them being of the same ethnicity. Especially if my first language is niche, the chances of hiring the same ethnicity would be higher.

I've been on the receiving end of this before, being hired in part because I spoke English due to my manager while the rest of the company was primarily Mandarin

Re: Switzerland wil have a referendum to cap population at 10M

#540

Post by istjohn »

rayiner wrote: post #444
p1necone wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This seems like a sarcastic/unserious comment, but based on my interactions with people who are supposedly anti-immigration - yes, it's entirely based on skin colour. Someone from India, China etc whose family immigrated in the 1800s to work in gold mines/railroads etc and probably has deeper roots in the country than the person criticising them = immigrant, bad, shouldn't be here. Somehow simultaneously taking all t…

I agree the people who lump children of Chinese railroad workers in with illegal immigrants are racist. But it’s the pro-immigration folks that do that pervasively, under the label “people of color.” Meanwhile, you have to look at pretty fringy parts of the right to find that.

Fringy parts like the POTUS?
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