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Domain expertise has always been the real moat

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Re: Domain expertise has always been the real moat

#531
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it makes software development easier, but a career as a professional software engineer harder.

I hope that after a short period of delusional expectations and layoffs from employers we're at least left with a more consistently competent set of professionals in our industry. Some people have imposter syndrome. Others are actually just imposters.

I hope that after a short period of delusional expectations that top management is going to reap the rewards of these AI capabilities we get a whole lot more comfortable with just doing the full business stack - including management, sales, branding, etc - and hierarchical structures crumble into flat collectives of do-everything true-generalist programmers.

Re: Domain expertise has always been the real moat

#532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope that after a short period of delusional expectations and layoffs from employers we're at least left with a more consistently competent set of professionals in our industry. Some people have imposter syndrome. Others are actually just imposters.

> Some people have imposter syndrome. Others are actually just imposters. I'm sorry to say, but AI coding assistants paved the way to professional imposters whose only skill is prompting a model to do something. I already had the displeasure of working with a software engineer who not only introduced a bunch of regressions that by mindlessly vibe-coding things against the requirements but also complained that not hav…

Nonetheless, would still trust Claude to be generally more reliably competent in a random area of software engineering than the average professional. Sure they might still be better in a particular area of their expertise, but we've all had to play the imposter before on the stuff we care less about and figure it out as we go. AIs are still inferior sometimes but usually a decent 7/10+ on most topics - which really fills the gap.

Re: Domain expertise has always been the real moat

#533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but most people (especially a large portion on HN and Reddit) do not internalize it. A SWE who has always worked in DevTooling companies will always be preferred by DevTooling companies over a generalist. A SWE who has always worked in AdTech will always be preferred by AdTech companies over a generalist. etc etc. Software fundamentals - though useful - are table stakes skills at this point. No business wants to…

> No business wants to deal with the headache of on-ramping employees who have never worked in a specific domain or industry… The usual sickness. If you don’t train people to become specialists and just expect them to fall from the sky, it’s only a question of time until you run out of specialists.

The tech industry is significantly larger now than it was a decade ago. Large self-sufficient talent pools of SWEs, Designers, PMs, PMMs, and SEs/AEs exist for most subsegments of tech now.

Additionally, limiting early career hiring to to T10/20 CE/CS/ECE/EECS programs (they tend to graduate around 10K students a year), veterans (they tend to have the "can-do" and fast learning mindset needed), and a couple regional schools is more than enough to build a self-sustaining early career pipeline for just about any segment of tech indefinitely.

Re: Domain expertise has always been the real moat

#534
post #495
post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> there are tech-savvy non-developers who are actually building and shipping stuff with AI I absolutely believe that. I think those are people with "software brain" who are on their way to becoming real developers. By the point they can write apps that are secure and scale... they'll have learned enough about software development to be employable as software developers. They'll be part of a new breed of developer who…

I agree, and I want to add that 'better' doesn't necessarily mean 'creates more robust, elegant, resilient software'. Better means from a business perspective. If we (I'm one of the people you're discussing) end up cheaper or more fungible, for example, we still might be worth hiring from a business perspective even if the code we create is shit. I've also seen an assumption that you've made here that I think is wort…

This is a great comment, thanks for giving me a bunch to think about here.

I'm personally excited about people with deep specialities in other fields being able to build software without reskilling as software engineers first.

Re: Domain expertise has always been the real moat

#535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's reading my requests more clearly than (for example) Google's search input ever did I see this take a lot and it puzzles me. While I think LLMs provide some advantages over traditional search in some modestly nontrivial contexts, they tend to be inferior to traditional search at its peak. I attribute this attitude to two things: the broad progressive enshittification and productization of search, and the fact t…

I think that the issue here is that the definition of search/results has changed (in my mind at least they were always - what knowledge are you looking for, followed by, here are the results that carry that knowledge OR point in the right direction, but I recognise that other people will hold more strict definitions) AI has changed how I find and synthesise information in ways Google never managed - we've always had…

> Edit: I have always held that searching for an answer (whether it be internet or human) has always been about asking the right person, the right question, at the right time.

At the peak of search they're describing, asking a question was how you'd get subpar results. The best way to search was for things you expected to be in the results - like, for a simplistic example, you wouldn't search for "how do I...", you'd search for something like "How to..."

Re: Domain expertise has always been the real moat

#536

Very well articulated for sure. But, I do think the word _'expert'_ always tends to do a lot of heavy lifting. What looks like _'expertise'_ may actually be pattern recognition built through repeated practice. I do believe that is what a model can already do faster than humans. So, to me, we've got to be cautious here in that what this post implies is humanity must strive to be in the 99.99th percentile of domain kno…

You're right, I'm still not as much of an expert as I would like to be in my field, and I've been doing it since dirt was rocks :0

Pattern recognition was exactly my first objective, but I only had kilobytes so language was out of the question.

The machine would ease the burden on me as far as the pattern recognition was concerned, but I expected to continue to do all of the judgment myself for the foreseeable future until someday when I had more powerful computers.

Very helpful to separate the recognition from the judgment, but I still found it best to perform both simultaneously. That was what I would have wanted AI for, to do both if I could get it good enough for reliable judgment one day.

>The code was a transcription of that understanding. Acquiring the understanding was the job.

Well in the mid-1970's almost nobody had the title of Software Engineer or software product manager compared to today.

But "Coders" as a job title were as common as the professional "Programmers", they worked hand-in-hand. The Coders were the ones operating the keypunch machines which took the manuscripts from the programmers plus data from the users and turned it into code on the punch cards so it would quickly run on somebody else's out-of-reach machine without tying it up for very long. Those colossal remote mainframes were expensive. But there was nothing else so what were you going to do? It sucked to be tied to some huge data center though before you could do any programming at all :(

If AI makes some coders of the 21st century feel like they are being bumped down closer to keypunch operators than ever imagined, serving a massive machine they will never be able to own, that would not be too surprising.

>You can now produce the software without ever building the model, and that breaks an assumption the whole profession was organized around.

This is exactly what I said back then, but with reverse angst. I was observing all the professions up to that point in time, almost all of which had nothing to do with software or computers at all. Since actual stand-alone "software companies" were still rarer than hen's teeth. With desktop computers beginning to take hold, Bill Gates and backers like that put maximum effort into getting software recognized under copyright and not just patent coverage.

Next thing you know there were two handfuls of software companies which is still pretty insignificant, but that is exponential growth and it can be quite tempting.

That's when I realized if that keeps up, people leading the first wave of computerization are going to start producing "the software without ever building the model", especially with a lot of professions that require decades of domain expertise which can sometimes be more infinitely rewarding to leverage with each accumulated decade.

If it was going to take decades anyway, might as well do it. The idea that computerization was going to take place using purchased software, without so many companies having their own home-grown programming expertise from the beginning, is what breaks the assumption that all other professions were organized around! That in itself was going to leave a lot of money on the table.

>The domain expert had no equivalent path, because learning to build reliable software is years of work they were never going to do.

I had already spent years learning to build more reliable code than you could generally get from popular software, because reliability is what I needed more than anything. I wasn't going to spend the years of additional work making my frameworks into things that even resembled commercially appealing products though. If I ever decided to go that route, there were going to one day be high-performance teams having well-honed experience in that area if nothing else. Gave me more time to concentrate on other things.

Even though I had a teenage head start in programming itself similar to Gates during the same 1970's, by the mid-'80's it was not only programming but AI too was plainly going to only get more popular faster than I could keep up. I had already started to do a little ML a few years earlier which really worked, but it was expensive and "nobody" around here could afford it once the oil crash kicked in. It was plain to see that "all I had to do" was wait and any domain expertise I could develop in natural science could be leveraged later on if AI gets good someday. I even explored the neural networks of the 1990's but that wasn't going to cut it either.

And here we are.

If I got a wild hair and decided to launch a (non-mission-critical) "product" at this late date I guess I could consider the use of an AI agent not much differently than I would have engaged with a software team once they became an entity themselves. Same business model from my point of view over the long term.

The most artificial thing in the whole timeline is copyright which lots of massive sand castles have been built from, and that is where this language-model-approach to AI strikes the weakest foundation so far, as the tide finally rises too much to be denied.

One big artificial thing gets ugly when confronting another big artificial thing as they're vying for king of the artificial mountain :\

Re: Domain expertise has always been the real moat

#537
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is kind of funny though how all this hand wringing on performance, graphics, quality quality quality, has just resulted in basically same stuff as what I was doing with my computer in 2000 but with enormous resource use in comparison. Still playing games, still same old discussion forums/social media/whatever on the internet, same email and office suite, same chat, same media players, same everything. I can't even…

>all this hand wringing on performance, graphics, quality quality quality, has just resulted in basically same stuff as what I was doing with my computer in 2000 but with enormous resource use in compariso Mordern GPUs are streaming multiprocessors. Complaining that GPUs use a ton of resources is like complaining that a firehose uses a ton of water. Maximum data throughput is the point! >But that isn't what any of th…

I'm willing to bet all those novel games would have still been great games if they took their underlying mechanics and were making them in early 2000s with that era graphics. Ray tracing isn't a game mechanic. Neither is hair physics.

Re: Domain expertise has always been the real moat

#538
post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that the issue here is that the definition of search/results has changed (in my mind at least they were always - what knowledge are you looking for, followed by, here are the results that carry that knowledge OR point in the right direction, but I recognise that other people will hold more strict definitions) AI has changed how I find and synthesise information in ways Google never managed - we've always had…

> Edit: I have always held that searching for an answer (whether it be internet or human) has always been about asking the right person, the right question, at the right time. At the peak of search they're describing, asking a question was how you'd get subpar results. The best way to search was for things you expected to be in the results - like, for a simplistic example, you wouldn't search for "how do I...", you'd…

Yeah - the plan was to word match - having the right words in the query was the key.

It was also why (one) SEO was to fill the page in a hidden block, every word that could possibly be related (synonyms) to the page content.

On that note I am wondering how the poisoning of the content for AI is going to occur (eventually someone is going to work out how to make LLMs say "Eat at Joes - 1313 Mockingbird lane" whenever someone [else] asks some food related question)

Re: Domain expertise has always been the real moat

#539

While I agree that domain expertise has always been a moat, I believe the author is missing something critical: there is a big difference between being able to verify the output of a system is correct, and being able to tell a system how to generate the correct output to begin with. Personal example: I had a software engineering colleague who was the best coder of financial management systems I've ever encountered. H…

> there is a big difference between being able to verify the output of a system is correct, and being able to tell a system how to generate the correct output to begin with.

There are attempts to avoid needing to explicitly construct the rules. This is often called "Programming by example".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_by_example

On some level, even training an LLM to answer questions is this. I do like my determinism, though.

Vibecoding with human-managed acceptance is a very current-moment way of doing this. Just make sure the agent has to program within a framework, not changing it, and the results are actually pretty good.

One of the interesting things one can do with this mentality, if you set up your system well, is to reevaluate prior decisions with new rules, and decide whether any differing decisions are corrections for prior bad decisions, or newly-introduced bugs.

Re: Domain expertise has always been the real moat

#540
post #461
post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the exasperating part about learning to speak Spanish using a textbook; you must guess the grammar rules because the textbook won't tell you. So, you use the English rule and hope and pray that it is the same in Spanish, and you'll be right the majority of the time but often wrong. Spanish textbooks written 100 years ago tell you the grammar rules and are more useful than recent textbooks.

While interesting, I rarely found knowing grammar rules beyond some very basic ones to help all that much for learning to speak a language, compared to language exposure and speaking practice.

I would be very surprised if there was even a single natural language with a complete grammar that actually describes the spoken language. It's all just conventions. Lots of people confuse common patterns with rules.
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