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Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

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Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#531

Post by GJim »

M95D wrote: post #492
GJim wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a ridiculous argument! So what is the point in having laws then? No doubt you believe any adtech request for personal data should be met by the subject promptly bending over and grabbing their ankles with both hands?

I am absolutely sure (even though I can't give a link as proof) that all telephony operators everywhere have to provide a backdoor for the "authorities" in order to obtain their licence. So, yes, a telecom provider will be bending over immediately, or risk losing their licence. I also suspect that in many cases, the operator won't even be informed about the tracking because the gov agencies already have direct access…

What you are referring to is legal court ordered surveillance, which requires a warrant.

This is nothing whatsoever to do with allowing anybody who pays (such as adtech) a free reign over your private data to do what they like with!

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#532

Post by kileel »

futureshock wrote: post #486
bitparadox wrote: post #475

I have a few year old Volkswagen. I'm security conscious and made sure to disable all the data collection I could find in the companion app, turn off remote access services, dig through the infotainment to turn off what I could, etc. Last year I requested a Carfax on it, and one of the fields in the request was current mileage. I entered an estimate like 75000 miles. On form submission, that field failed validation w…

I think this is interesting because it collides my intuition from the pre-adtech world with the post. Surely collecting telemetry on nearly every mile you drive could never be a sensible use of time or money, right? What kind of insanity is that? But then of course I know that every click on every website is recorded for all time and that data must be many thousands of times less valuable.

To me this is the singular drive behind AI development. Big shops realized they can collect orders of magnitude more data than they can keep up with, so they started pushing to develop more and more sophisticated algorithms to process it all. Eventually that lead to LLMs that (maybe someday) can ingest it all, process it all, and reason about it all.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#533

Post by GJim »

noir_lord wrote: post #489
futureshock wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is interesting because it collides my intuition from the pre-adtech world with the post. Surely collecting telemetry on nearly every mile you drive could never be a sensible use of time or money, right? What kind of insanity is that? But then of course I know that every click on every website is recorded for all time and that data must be many thousands of times less valuable.

Worked in enterprise for most of my career, uniformly the business side asks for every single piece of data possible to be collected and kept in case they need it. They basically never need 95% of it and most of it is never looked at again. That 5% that does gets used ends up been collapsed to a single 100,000ft view somewhere that the decision makers in the company can see it and immediately treat as gospel . Which…

> uniformly the business side asks for every single piece of data possible to be collected and kept in case they need it.

True, though collecting and keeping unnecessary _personal_ data is very much a liability under the GDPR.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#534

Post by tmerc »

orloffm wrote: post #458
ricardobeat wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They beep when you go above the speed limit, and only for a couple seconds. If they do that 'constantly' the problem is in the driver's seat... It takes two seconds to turn off in my car (though by law it has to reset on every drive), but I never bother. In situations where it's "ok" to drive a little over the limit, it's a small price to pay and a gentle reminder.

I've rented an Audi in Germany. On autobahns with 140 km/h speed limits there are lots of signs that limit speed to some low values like 50 km/h, but only under some conditions like snow, darkness, workday morning etc. Of course the car had no idea about those, started beeping for no reason and once even decided to do an emergency brake.

My sports car has automatic braking with a manual trans. It has hit the brakes for me when I was in control and accelerating after slowing down for a turning car. Like, I'm human, I saw the obstacle, took action to handle it, then continued with my life. I'm back on throttle knowing the turning car is gonna be out of my way, there's an extra lane if not, and this thing doesn't cut throttle, it hits the front brakes in a rwd sports car. What if I was mid corner when it decided to unload the rear of the car with brakes? It's extra infuriating because of I try to brake while on throttle, it cuts power, but it doesn't do that for itself.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#535

Post by SoftTalker »

GJim wrote: post #533
noir_lord wrote: post #489

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worked in enterprise for most of my career, uniformly the business side asks for every single piece of data possible to be collected and kept in case they need it. They basically never need 95% of it and most of it is never looked at again. That 5% that does gets used ends up been collapsed to a single 100,000ft view somewhere that the decision makers in the company can see it and immediately treat as gospel . Which…

> uniformly the business side asks for every single piece of data possible to be collected and kept in case they need it. True, though collecting and keeping unnecessary _personal_ data is very much a liability under the GDPR.

Also it's increasingly a liability for potential ransom. The less sensitive data you keep, the lower your exposure to ransom demands, even if your systems have vulnerabilities (hint: they all do).

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#536

Post by SoftTalker »

is_true wrote: post #485
bitparadox wrote: post #475

I have a few year old Volkswagen. I'm security conscious and made sure to disable all the data collection I could find in the companion app, turn off remote access services, dig through the infotainment to turn off what I could, etc. Last year I requested a Carfax on it, and one of the fields in the request was current mileage. I entered an estimate like 75000 miles. On form submission, that field failed validation w…

I think reporting mileage would be one of the only usages for data collection that is ok with me. In some countries there's a SCAM in which the owner or agency lowers the mileage of the car and sell it for much more because of the lower mileage.

This is harder on modern cars. Mechanical odometers were fairly easy to roll back, modern digital odometers are quite well protected.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#537

Post by gamerdonkey »

mixdup wrote: post #500
futureshock wrote: post #486

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this is interesting because it collides my intuition from the pre-adtech world with the post. Surely collecting telemetry on nearly every mile you drive could never be a sensible use of time or money, right? What kind of insanity is that? But then of course I know that every click on every website is recorded for all time and that data must be many thousands of times less valuable.

>Surely collecting telemetry on nearly every mile you drive could never be a sensible use of time or money, right? What kind of insanity is that? They're not collecting in depth telemetry on every mile you drive, as you drive it. They're literally just every couple of days sending the number on the odometer up to their server. Most carmakers do it simply so they can sell you oil changes

> They're not collecting in depth telemetry on every mile you drive, as you drive it.

I mean, yes and no. It is most likely that the majority of carmakers are not collecting detailed telemetry. But we know from data breaches that some cars collect pretty detailed information.

https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a63306050/exposed-vw-data-...

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#538

Post by SoftTalker »

merpkz wrote: post #467
btbuildem wrote: post #132

There's a fortune to be made for whomever produces a car that has minimal features, and and electric-drivetrain with onboard gasoline generator. No screens, knobs and buttons, no assists. Extra fortune if you can licence designs and revive some of the old-and-loved classics with new safety features.

There is no way that is true, basic cars have always existed, like Dacia with bare minimum features to pass all requirements and they are far from being popular. The fact of the matter is, is that people just like fancy things and cars especially

The vast majority of car buyers know nothing more than "right pedal to go, left pedal to stop, turn wheel to steer"

They never read the owner's manual, they never touch the options menus, they never even check the oil or tire pressure.

They certainly are not going to mess with fuses or disabling anything.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#539

Post by SoftTalker »

fc417fc802 wrote: post #165
bigfishrunning wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My hilly 25 mile commute isn't really bicycle compatible, unfortunately

There are impressively capable ebikes these days. I wonder how long before tracking gets introduced to those ...

If you ride with your phone you're already being tracked.

Re: Removing the modem and GPS from my 2024 RAV4 hybrid

#540

Post by is_true »

SoftTalker wrote: post #536
is_true wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think reporting mileage would be one of the only usages for data collection that is ok with me. In some countries there's a SCAM in which the owner or agency lowers the mileage of the car and sell it for much more because of the lower mileage.

This is harder on modern cars. Mechanical odometers were fairly easy to roll back, modern digital odometers are quite well protected.

They aren't. Even for brands like BMW, Mercedes, etc.
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