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I moved my digital stack to Europe

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Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#531

Post by TheCapn »

Unfunkyufo wrote: post #498
dsl wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is just wildly backwards. It is the same mindset of the cyberpunk "privacy advocates" of the early 2000s, move your stuff to Sealand or Switzerland. The fundamental flaw with this plan is if your fear is genuinely of the United States, your data is far more protected inside the US. The intelligence community has no restrictions operating on foreign networks and servers. Rather than go to a FISA court for approv…

As an advocate (and practitioner) of European digital sovereignty, let me tell you, at least from my perspective, it has absolutely nothing to do with fear of US intelligence agencies spying on us, and everything to do with the catastrophic consequences of an unreliable and unstable American government pulling the plug on our vital infrastructure, or at least the very least weaponizing our dependency on American comp…

As a Canadian who has been listening to the "51st state" wordvomit coming out of US administration your comment is very apt.

For some reason I can't fully grasp, a LOT of US citizens are ignorant to how the rest of the world is perceiving them at the current moment. There's countless US articles talking about US/Canada relations as if it is a trade dispute and that they think Canadians are eager to re-unite and go back to the way things were without ever addressing the threats to our sovereignty. Then you have comments like the parent to your post who is....wildly off the mark thinking that in a point of contention we'd prefer to keep our data on US controlled systems because their government would need to follow their own legal processes to acquire data of a foreign/hostile state??????

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#532

Post by clickety_clack »

TrackerFF wrote: post #49

For the past days I've been participating(albeit over Teams) in a conference relevant to my industry (intel), basically startups and established companies showcasing their products to a closed audience of EU gov. officials. One thing I noticed right away, is that all companies were asked "Can we fully host this from within EU or our country" from the various people in audience. Every single one. Many of the startups…

We were doing this in Canada at least 6 years ago, maybe even longer. If the servers are in a different country, your data is sitting on a machine that is subject to a foreign country’s laws and is accessible to their law enforcement.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#533

Post by anakaine »

embedding-shape wrote: post #151
TrackerFF wrote: post #49

For the past days I've been participating(albeit over Teams) in a conference relevant to my industry (intel), basically startups and established companies showcasing their products to a closed audience of EU gov. officials. One thing I noticed right away, is that all companies were asked "Can we fully host this from within EU or our country" from the various people in audience. Every single one. Many of the startups…

> Definitely a change, because it is not something I can recall being important just a couple of years ago. I work as a consultant and freelancer across a bunch of companies, some American but mostly European ones. Last ~8 months or so, the sentiment about "Hosting our data in EU or even our own country" has drastically changed, I don't think I've seen such a clear shift in public opinion so fast before. The amount o…

In Australia we have legislated it on multiple places, and it has become tied to things like privacy legislation and for that which isnt privacy related we defer to industry best practice - which is often discussed and published by national agencies in the tech and security space, which of course turns into "must do" actions by every government CISO and CDO/CIO.

It has been a headache for our vendors.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#534

Post by akramachamarei »

sevenzero wrote: post #307
traceroute66 wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> need all the business documents as well, like a privacy policy even if its just a small public app on the playstore And this is a bad thing why exactly ?!?!?! If you respect your users data and right to privacy then you've got nothing to hide by publishing an EU compliant privacy policy. It might be "just a small app", but I and many other people still very much still "do give a damn" about what the hell you do wit…

Because if I want to provide an app to like 5 people I know personally, I am soon forced to do so via the Playstore due to Google disabling sideloading on Android. So now I am forced to inform myself about all the bullshit documents I never cared for beforehand. Yes I know what I am allowed to do with my users data, no I don't send it to some data brokers, yes I already comply to privacy laws and whatnot. Just requir…

Google has not disabled sideloading on Android. It will become a little more complicated, but still very easy.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#535

Post by crote »

weberer wrote: post #347
embedding-shape wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Definitely a change, because it is not something I can recall being important just a couple of years ago. I work as a consultant and freelancer across a bunch of companies, some American but mostly European ones. Last ~8 months or so, the sentiment about "Hosting our data in EU or even our own country" has drastically changed, I don't think I've seen such a clear shift in public opinion so fast before. The amount o…

>I don't think I've seen such a clear shift in public opinion so fast before Its not about public opinion, but rather data sovereignty requirements. Certain types of data must be processed within servers located in the EU, regardless of where the company's HQ is. That's why you see most SaaS platforms nowadays offer a EU-only version.

And then you've got a country like the US introducing the CLOUD Act, which "allow federal law enforcement to compel U.S.-based technology companies via warrant or subpoena to provide requested data stored on servers regardless of whether the data are stored in the U.S. or on foreign soil."

In other words: physical location isn't enough, the company's HQ being in the US is in itself already a massive risk.

The big American cloud companies are trying to get around this by offering their services via "independent" EU entities who aren't owned by the US company but still offer the exact same stack, but I bet most customers are just as unimpressed as I imagine US law enforcement is going to be.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#536

Post by IAmFledge »

ffritz wrote: post #436
IAmFledge wrote: post #96

I started the process of this back in January and now, at least in terms of product hosting; fully migrated into European infrastructure ( https://bannermedia.ltd ). It didn't come without a bit of pain, but glad I've done it - and to come with this I've ended up building a whole terraform setup for cross provider / cross region high availability within Europe. So far my key mappings included: - Cloudflare -> Bunny C…

Did you use Cloudflare for it’s WAF too or just CDN? Last I checked Bunny is not a replacement for the CF WAF.

They have Bunny Shield which I have in place as a first stage, but Bunny points to my own ingress boxes / load balancers which themselves are running ModSecurity, OWASP CRS and CrowdSec.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#537

Post by IAmFledge »

ffritz wrote: post #435
MartijnHols wrote: post #369

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you looking for? I use Bunny CDN along with Bunny Shield, and together they're better than Cloudflare for me. It's $10/month, but I can afford it for the privacy of my users. Bunny's aggressive bot blocking without bothering the vast majority of users with regular challenge pages provides a much better UX.

But Bunny Shield is not a Cloudflare WAF replacement afaik. Not even close.

Mentioned this in another reply; in my case I am running Bunny Shield, but my Bunny origins are then my own ingress boxes / LBs which themselves are running ModSecurity with OWASP CRS; and CrowdSec.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#538

Post by crote »

embedding-shape wrote: post #381
vga1 wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, AWS even was trying to found a EU sovereign cloud precisely for this reason. https://aws.eu/ I haven't heard of anyone moving to this, though.

I guess they eventually read their own local (US) laws and figured no one cares about that effort since Amazon is still covered by CLOUD Act, regardless of what ccTLD they happen to use for their landing page. > The CLOUD Act primarily amends the Stored Communications Act (SCA) of 1986 to allow federal law enforcement to compel U.S.-based technology companies via warrant or subpoena to provide requested data stored o…

Their idea is that the EU cloud's corporate structure is completely independent, so AWS US isn't a parent company' so the CLOUD Act doesn't apply. They aren't a local subsidiary, they are an independent company licensing the AWS tech stack to operate fully independently on their own hardware - which just happens to also have a license to the AWS name.

It's a rather clever idea, and it essentially prevents EU government organisations from excluding them from tenders by requiring EU-based ownership. It obviously won't convince anyone with half a brain that they are genuinely independent, but the government lawyers are going to have a really hard time writing tenders in a way which excludes them from participating.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#539

Post by gmueckl »

j_maffe wrote: post #476
gmueckl wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The EU needs to be more vigilant than ever, though. Russia has been trying to export their nationalistic totalitarianism to the EU for decades and now the US has openly declared a goal of exporting their brand of blind ignorant nationalism to the EU as well. Both influences will boost alt-right parties if successful. The obvious intended outcome for both powers is a EU that is breaking up from the inside. On the posi…

> Russia has been trying to export their nationalistic totalitarianism to the EU Let's not pretend that nationalism doesn't have deep roots in Europe.

Do you think that I do? Nationalism existed at the edges of the political spectrum for a long time. I'm saying that outside propaganda tries to actively boost the popularity of those parties.

Re: I moved my digital stack to Europe

#540

Post by JuniperMesos »

TheCapn wrote: post #531
Unfunkyufo wrote: post #498

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an advocate (and practitioner) of European digital sovereignty, let me tell you, at least from my perspective, it has absolutely nothing to do with fear of US intelligence agencies spying on us, and everything to do with the catastrophic consequences of an unreliable and unstable American government pulling the plug on our vital infrastructure, or at least the very least weaponizing our dependency on American comp…

As a Canadian who has been listening to the "51st state" wordvomit coming out of US administration your comment is very apt. For some reason I can't fully grasp, a LOT of US citizens are ignorant to how the rest of the world is perceiving them at the current moment. There's countless US articles talking about US/Canada relations as if it is a trade dispute and that they think Canadians are eager to re-unite and go ba…

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