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I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services

neilzone.co.uk

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Re: I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services

#531

Post by dvngnt_ »

croes wrote: post #200
_heimdall wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't imagine countries with such strict speech laws, for example, would be willing to build a system that is technically incapable of linking the person visiting a sire and the site requesting verification. This proposal may have been updated since I read it previously, so I could be wrong now, but it didn't read as a true zero-knowledge proof as key steps in the flow still required a level of trusting the governm…

The EU has more freedom of speech than the US, the US has just a different way of punishment. It’s much easier in the US to lose your job for what you say as in the EU and in the US the consequences of losing your job are more severe if you don’t have enough money so you can afford to lose it. US freedom of speech comes with a price tag that puts the censor inside your brain.

This is really an example of "formal rights and material conditions."

You make a case that EU has better social safety nets and employee protection not that the US has weaker free speech laws. While you can't ignore the effect having wealth can insulate you from consequences, it still doesn't support your statement as written.

Is it true that someone who is retired on a pension in US can say more hateful things without government action vs a similar retiree in EU?

Re: I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services

#532

Post by specialist »

anextio wrote: post #511
specialist wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. The choice is between democracy and our current ever worsening sociopolitical hellscape. If eliminating bots and sockpuppets is the price for restoring some semblance of democracy, then gosh darn. And if social media, targeted ads, and algorithmic hate machines are collateral damage, than gee double gosh darn. Those sacrifices are a price I'm willing to pay.

> "Democracy" is when "bad actors" (as defined by the establishment) are shut out of all online discourse. The point of ID laws is not to stop "bots" or "sockpuppets", it's to enable governments to shut down the speech of their political adversaries by painting them as dangerous. That is not democracy, that is authoritarianism, even if you absolutely hate the people that are being shut up. Western countries are not i…

> The point of ID laws is not to stop "bots"...

Then make it the point.

The Internet is already all but dead. We could fix it (as I propose). Or we let it die.

I'm fine with either outcome.

> criminalizing dissent

When has that not been true? Serious question.

Socrates was compelled to commit suicide. Jesus was nailed to a cross. Journalist and activists are routinely murdered. How many political prisoners are there right now?

The outcome you fear happened a long time ago.

Re: I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services

#533

Post by avaika »

cortesoft wrote: post #163
bArray wrote: post #6

I was sitting in a room the other day with a young adult, we were searching for additional algorithm learning materials. They searched in Google, and accept the cookies. They clicked on a website, and accepted those cookies too. They then started entering their email address to access another service. I was completely taken aback. I'm the sort of person that either rejects the cookies, or will use another site entire…

I am in my mid forties, been working as a professional software developer for over 20 years. I click “accept the cookies” almost every time. I just personally don’t feel it’s worth the effort and cost to try to avoid it. What “dark pattern cookie trick” are you worried about? I just can’t come up with a scenario where it will actually harm me in any way. All the examples I have heard are either completely implausible…

> Now, I am not going around giving my real email out to random sites, though, although even that doesn’t strike me as particularly dangerous.

I am fanatically following my rule "one email per website". Obviously, they all route to the same inbox. Initial motivation was to see who leaks my address and simply block it. However, the separation helped me out tremendously more than I ever expected (at the very least I believe so).

I'm originally from a country with a highly oppressive regime. Years ago I signed up for financial support to a political opposition leader. Things weren't as bad and it felt safe enough at the time. They had my email, of course.

Eventually opposition systems were compromised, and the full donor list became public. The regime's response: they cross-referenced it against emails registered on government services. For quite a few whose addresses matched, police officers paid a visit — looking for grounds to fine them, pressure them, etc.

My alias for that site existed nowhere else. No match, no visit. Definitely an experience I was more than happy to avoid.

Re: I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services

#534

Post by birdsongs »

pocksuppet wrote: post #326
cortesoft wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly, this still doesn't do anything to show me that I should opt out. I, as an individual, am not going to have any effect on a business if I opt out or not. No business decision is going to be made because I opt out. You might argue that it will matter if enough of us do it. Sure, that is true... but again, it won't matter if I do it or not. If N number of people opting out is enough to ruin the business model, th…

Sadly, there will be no signals at all, until it's too late. ICE has used online advertisement tracking to find their targets. They won't tell you anything about this, until they're already at your door with handcuffs. https://www.404media.co/cbp-tapped-into-the-online-advertisi...

This is the real answer. Palantir aggregates massive amounts of data, and they are not stupid enough to not use online ad profiles. They track everything. I mean, sexuality, race, age group, mental and physical illnesses, income, job/industry, living address, work address, frequent travel destinations (in and out of your city), shopping habits, eating habits, the list goes on and on and on. Any possible days point they can get, they will.

If you aren't worried about the US government having this, it's a sign of significant privilege and safety a lot of others don't have.

It's not possible to be a ghost, but it is possible to reduce your surface area in these systems, which is what I focus on. Denying tracking cookies is a single tool in this quite large toolbox.

Re: I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services

#535

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

cortesoft wrote: post #163
bArray wrote: post #6

I was sitting in a room the other day with a young adult, we were searching for additional algorithm learning materials. They searched in Google, and accept the cookies. They clicked on a website, and accepted those cookies too. They then started entering their email address to access another service. I was completely taken aback. I'm the sort of person that either rejects the cookies, or will use another site entire…

I am in my mid forties, been working as a professional software developer for over 20 years. I click “accept the cookies” almost every time. I just personally don’t feel it’s worth the effort and cost to try to avoid it. What “dark pattern cookie trick” are you worried about? I just can’t come up with a scenario where it will actually harm me in any way. All the examples I have heard are either completely implausible…

You won't notice the effects, but allowing tracking feeds your behavioral profile into the data broker economy. You can then be targeted with things like dynamic pricing based on your guestimated income, invasive ads for significant life events, health care risk modeling, tracking your group affiliations, identity theft, and more.

Re: I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services

#536

Post by whywhywhywhy »

whywhywhywhy wrote: post #105
darknavi wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we should make young learners in primary school use "infected" Windows XP so they can dodge spam popups and learn what and what not to click.

They'd just click it away every time, when my nephew got a gaming laptop he'd play mindcraft and the windows sticky keys popup would be firing constantly must have seen him dismiss it 15 times before I offered to show him how to get rid of it.

Just remembered, even more distressing he first said "No it's ok" until I insisted it had to be solved if he wanted to game on it and could be easily solved.

Re: I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services

#537

Post by drnick1 »

majorchord wrote: post #526
drnick1 wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It shouldn't take more than one second to log into a website using the Firefox password manager.

In my case it often can and does. Many sites I use force email or SMS-based 2FA, sometimes in addition to "security questions" and/or have other multiple steps of authorization (like captchas) required; it's often not just a simple username/password for me. Now multiply that by 25 different sites. Not happening.

One option for that is to use multiple Firefox profiles. The main general-purpose browsing profile would have a hardened configuration, while dedicated profiles are used for other websites that should remain logged in.

Re: I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services

#538

Post by Root_Denied »

cortesoft wrote: post #310
1shooner wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First of all, if you don't practice any tracking limitation, you're almost certainly giving additional parties (directly or otherwise) access to your personal information. This is marketing data brokerage, this is the whole ballgame. To your point about the actual harm, I've come to see it as a kind of ecological problem. Wasting energy and sending more trash to a landfill doesn't harm me individually, at least not i…

Sadly, this still doesn't do anything to show me that I should opt out. I, as an individual, am not going to have any effect on a business if I opt out or not. No business decision is going to be made because I opt out. You might argue that it will matter if enough of us do it. Sure, that is true... but again, it won't matter if I do it or not. If N number of people opting out is enough to ruin the business model, th…

Why do you think you have a 5 day work week? Because collective action fought for it. Same goes for the Civil Rights movement in the US and strong union protections for the Boomers that helped them build out a healthy middle class (that they're in the process of squeezing dry after pulling up the ladder, because Millennials and Gen Z won't do collective action to enact change, but that's a separate discussion).

Saying you don't see an individual motive here to do anything just says that you don't see how interconnected everyone is in modern society.

Re: I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services

#539

Post by mixmastamyk »

cortesoft wrote: post #530
mixmastamyk wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Browsing history (and input) is used in many court cases today and has been for years, at borders as well. It’s not about whether it’s personal, but rather about establishing intent. Ignore at your own peril, and enjoy risk with no benefit.

Rejecting cookies doesn't erase your browser history.

Cookies tie the history together across sites, at the other end.

Re: I'm reluctant to verify my identity or age for any online services

#540

Post by slumberlust »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #535
cortesoft wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am in my mid forties, been working as a professional software developer for over 20 years. I click “accept the cookies” almost every time. I just personally don’t feel it’s worth the effort and cost to try to avoid it. What “dark pattern cookie trick” are you worried about? I just can’t come up with a scenario where it will actually harm me in any way. All the examples I have heard are either completely implausible…

You won't notice the effects, but allowing tracking feeds your behavioral profile into the data broker economy. You can then be targeted with things like dynamic pricing based on your guestimated income, invasive ads for significant life events, health care risk modeling, tracking your group affiliations, identity theft, and more.

Unfortunately, NOT accepting them and actively blocking things also makes you extremely identifiable.
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