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British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

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Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#531

Post by Izkata »

stephen_g wrote: post #373
wyre wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this might be controversial and a sign of growing up in America, but i think its a lot like people preferring Celsius over Fahrenheit. I don't care if water boils and freezes at exactly 100 and 0 degrees, it's easy to know its state by looking at it. But its very easy to understand what temp differences will feel like between 90, 70, 50 degrees F etc compared to 31, 22, and 4 degrees C.

In the same way, I have absolutely zero idea of what 90, 70 or 50 degrees Fahrenheit feels like - literally no intuition, those numbers seem foreign and disconnected from my experience, having always known and used Celsius. Celsius temperatures just make sense to me. It's literally just about growing up with it.

It's what someone might come up with without a scientific definition. Think of 0 - 100 F being (very very roughly) the survivable range for humans without special precautions beyond normal winter/summer clothes. -18 - 38 C is way more arbitrary from that perspective.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#532

Post by ndr42 »

eigenspace wrote: post #526
ndr42 wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My "very dishonest take" is the result of the polls after the EU parliament voted to stop the time change. The question in these polls had been which time the person would prefer. A big majority in Germany chose "summer time". So without any reasons given/discussed/researched the preference is summer time. Of course there are proponents with reasons for or against this or that time but this doesn't matter as the majo…

What's dishonest about your take is your strawman interpretation of the poll results. Just because you disagree with the majority of people does not mean they simply misunderstand the question and think "hurr durr summer better than winter, me choosey summer"

Well, at least thats the way I would have responded to the question when interviewed. Maybe I'm dumber or more mindless than the average german.

There were say some 100s of people called by phone, asked a lot of questions about a lot of topics, one of them is "which do you prefer: summer or winter time" - I would have said summer (without thinking to much) because I like the long summer evenings too.

That has nothing to do with misunderstanding the question.

It is of course possible that the average interviewee is well prepared or thinks long and hard before answering without letting the wording influence their answer.

But you should at least consider the possibility that also the german naming (summer/winter) could influence some people (like me) in their answers.

(I think the wording can have a big influence (maybe because of my linguistic background) but you are free to disagree)

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#533

Post by starkparker »

ewgoforth wrote: post #454
pkulak wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what everyone says. But it turns out people hate spending their morning in darkness for more light at night. Which makes perfect sense: https://washingtonian.com/2022/03/15/the-us-tried-permanent-... > the inkling of light they get during their winter commute It's not an inkling. Unless you roll out of bed and instantly onto your commute, you're getting natural sunlight through all your windows for hours every…

You sometimes hear that farmers are behind Daylight Savings Time, but that's not true. Farmers are self-employed and can set their hours to be whenever they want. If they need to work longer hours at harvest time, they can just do it. They don't need to monkey around with clocks to do this. "Big Golf" has been super active in lobbying for DST. https://businessjournalism.org/2020/10/the-stakeholders-of-d... I'd person…

Farming is just the investment part of the job. Unless they're US corn or soy farmers living primarily on subsidies, they still generally have to sell what they grow. The agribusiness side means dealing with the rest of civilization on terms that farmers don't get to set. So do the very non-trivial parts of farming where you have to regularly buy supplies, service equipment, and otherwise deal with employees (yours or others) and their labor regulations.

This description of farming also generally ignores animal husbandry, which outside of factory farms also ties work to the sun regardless of what the clock says, what part of the year it is, or what latitude you're on. When the rest of the world you have to interact with changes their clock, you have to both accommodate the animals' lack of understanding and desire for routine and adjust your own work around it. Dairy farmers aren't putting lighting in cow barns for fun or aesthetics, they're manipulating day/night schedules to get cows on the times that commerce relies on.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#534

Post by alistairSH »

pkulak wrote: post #253
messe wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That has to be latitude dependent. > you're getting natural sunlight through all your windows for hours every morning Hah "hours". Not in Northern Europe you're not. My commute is dark on both sides. If I had to choose which side I'd prefer to be brighter I'd prefer the end of the day rather than feeling like my daylight has been wasted in the office. I shift my schedule in winter to make up for this as best I can.

I guess. I'm at 46 degrees and civil twilight at Christmas starts at 7am. I get up at 6:30, so yeah, dead of winter, I spend 30 minutes in darkness. But that's better than 1:30. I guess it kinda hinges on this idea of "wasting" daylight. I don't feel like that. I want the sun to wake me up, and have no problem doing whatever I like when it's dark in the evening. Do people generally go on hikes after work? I go out fo…

Yes, I like to exercise outdoors after work. Much more pleasant when the sun is up. Especially if I'm cycling - even with multiple blinking lights, I don't feel particularly visible to drivers.

That said, with the shortest day's light ending before 5pm, even shifting to near 6pm doesn't really help - I'm at the office to 5-ish and if I'm lucky I can be ready to run/bike/whatever by 5:45, so its going dark mid-workout at best.

And I'm up at 5am, so in the dark most of the year. Ditching DST would make it daylight in mid-summer, but I do really enjoy having daylight past 8pm, so I can sit outside and read.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#535

Post by hnlmorg »

WorldMaker wrote: post #521
hnlmorg wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do like your optimism but most of modern communication isn’t done via meeting invites from Google / MS Office. I might say to someone on Slack: are you free at 14:00 UK time? Or organise a time on a Zoom call. Because so much of modern technology is already soulless, I’d hate to see a future where the only practical way to organise some time with someone becomes via business productivity suites.

In Discord you have Time tags for things like like "Are you free at ?". There's a well known tool called Hammertime [1] to make it easy to create those tags and copy/paste them into place. (I miss Hammertime sometimes daily when using Slack at work.) We could standardize such tools. We could make them easier to use like or . We have the technology (decades of date parsing experience and date math libraries). Will we?…

That’s handy. But who’s going to teach the other 98% of the worlds population who don’t use Discord and who aren’t good with technology like us?

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#536

Post by [deleted] »

messe wrote: post #243
pkulak wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what everyone says. But it turns out people hate spending their morning in darkness for more light at night. Which makes perfect sense: https://washingtonian.com/2022/03/15/the-us-tried-permanent-... > the inkling of light they get during their winter commute It's not an inkling. Unless you roll out of bed and instantly onto your commute, you're getting natural sunlight through all your windows for hours every…

That has to be latitude dependent. > you're getting natural sunlight through all your windows for hours every morning Hah "hours". Not in Northern Europe you're not. My commute is dark on both sides. If I had to choose which side I'd prefer to be brighter I'd prefer the end of the day rather than feeling like my daylight has been wasted in the office. I shift my schedule in winter to make up for this as best I can.

[deleted]

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#537

Post by ndr42 »

ndr42 wrote: post #22

In germany the terms are Sommerzeit (summer time) and Winterzeit (winter time). Of course everybody would chose the former as summer sound better than winter but the latter is "better" as it corresponds more to "wake up when there is light" which is favorable to health, performance etc.

Just in case someone has some time I recommend this scientific article:

Assessing the best hour to start the day: an appraisal of seasonal daylight saving time

https://www.proquest.com/docview/3187599695/fulltext?sourcet...

The article is easily accessible and addresses (in the concluding remarks) the various aspects in a nuanced way.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#538

Post by Zak »

AlexandrB wrote: post #530
pkulak wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what everyone says. But it turns out people hate spending their morning in darkness for more light at night. Which makes perfect sense: https://washingtonian.com/2022/03/15/the-us-tried-permanent-... > the inkling of light they get during their winter commute It's not an inkling. Unless you roll out of bed and instantly onto your commute, you're getting natural sunlight through all your windows for hours every…

This whole debate is cyclical[1]. I expect in a few years everyone will be complaining about not enough daylight in the mornings and DST seasonal changes will come back. > Permanent daylight saving time was signed into law by President Richard Nixon in January 1974, but there were complaints of children going to school in the dark and working people commuting and starting their work day in pitch darkness during the w…

I know that I want an end to clock changes more than I want the time zone to be optimized. Both spring and fall clock changes cause a spike in car crashes and serious health events, which I suspect of being worse than the problem they're trying to solve.

Re: British Columbia is permanently adopting daylight time

#540

Post by zoogeny »

kazinator wrote: post #406

> Residents will have eight months to prepare for Nov. 1, 2026, when the clocks would have been turned back one hour, but will now remain the same. That's an odd read. Residents have eight months to prepare for an event already known to be nonexistent: a non-happening.

I think this means preparing for BC to go out of sync with the US states we normally sync to (Washington, Oregon, California).

However, there is some hope I've heard expressed that this may push one or more of those states to make the switch as well. Unlikely, but hey, a lot can happen in eight months (as this year is already proving).

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