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How will OpenAI compete?

ben-evans.com

531–540 of 693 posts

Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The overwhelming volume of Apples sales comes from people who wouldn't notice if their device was running 2016 level hardware.

If software didn't keep getting worse this might be true but the average consumer notices if their computer is slow or dies too quickly.

But competitors do the same

Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#532

I think this is the best article on open AI that I've ever read. A lot of content these days will try to paint OpenAI in sensational ways that really doesn't get to the bottom of whether open AI has an economic mode, and this article does a very thorough job of explaining why OpenAI doesn't have power like the other platforms. And so this goes back to my theory that open AI's execution is basically to get it itself i…

I don't see OpenAI being too big to fail happening, the public is already very skeptical of AI. Also, there are other options available and therefore not a national security issue. Finally, OpenAI failing has no impact on employment or like societal disruption. In fact, it may increase employment if OpenAI fails.

The only other way to reach too big too fail status is if allied countries risk collapse if it goes under ( like the big banks in the financial crisis ) which I don't see happening either.

Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#533
post #24

I think this take underestimates a couple points: 1) the opportunities for vertical integration are huge. Anthropic originally said they didn’t want to build IDEs, then realized the pivot to Claude Code was available to them. Likewise when one of these companies can gobble up Legal, Medical, etc why would they let companies like Harvey capture the margins? 2) oss models are 6-12 months behind the frontier because of…

The question is always about performance plateau. If LLM performance plateaus, then OSS models will catch up. If there isn’t a plateau, then I can simply ask the super intelligent AI to distill itself, or tell me how to build a clone. It’s ironic, if the promise of AGI were realized, all knowledge companies, including AI companies, become worthless

> I can simply ask the super intelligent AI to distill itself,

I notice I am quite confused by this point. Why would you expect a super-intelligent AGI to honor your request, which would be at least a request to breach your contract with the AI provider, if not considered actively dangerous by the AI itself?

The smarter the AI, the less likely you should expect to be able to steal from it.

> or tell me how to build a clone

Step one: acquire a $100b datacenter. Step 2: acquire a $100b private dataset Step 3: here is the code you’d use to train Me2.0.

I don’t think this knowledge helps in the way you think it does.

Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#534
post #24

I think this take underestimates a couple points: 1) the opportunities for vertical integration are huge. Anthropic originally said they didn’t want to build IDEs, then realized the pivot to Claude Code was available to them. Likewise when one of these companies can gobble up Legal, Medical, etc why would they let companies like Harvey capture the margins? 2) oss models are 6-12 months behind the frontier because of…

BTW the distillation (or accusations of it) seems to go both ways. I've seen multiple reports of people asking Claude what model it is -- in Chinese -- and having it answer that it's DeepSeek. They're all scavengers, and we're the road kill.

I think it’s very plausible that the OSS models are being distilled too, but note that it’s asymmetrical.

You can’t get an Opus 4.5 by distilling from DeepSeek. What you might be able to get is a slightly more cost-effective training data generation pipeline, or something along those lines.

In the other direction, my belief is that DeepSeek could not have been trained without distilling from US labs. They simply didn’t have the compute to do the pre-training required.

Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#535

As far as I can tell Google Gemini has the best overall integrations (Android, WearOS, Google Home) with the only voice recognition that actually works (Gemini Live). Anthropic Claude has the best integrations with coding; what would make sense is for them to focus on that segment. Other AI companies don't have anything really compelling. Meta has a model that's fully open-source, but then that's not particularly use…

> Anthropic Claude has the best integrations with coding; what would make sense is for them to focus on that segment.

the problem with coding is the value is really in the harness and orchestration both of which are accessible to the opensource community. ClaudeCode isn't that big of a deal unless Anthropic makes it so that you can only access the models that ClaudeCode uses through ClaudeCode. If not, then projects like pi and opencode have the advantage in the long run. Also, these harnesses being node modules (of all things) make them very easy to reverse engineer with the help of... claudecode ironically.

Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#536
post #24

I think this take underestimates a couple points: 1) the opportunities for vertical integration are huge. Anthropic originally said they didn’t want to build IDEs, then realized the pivot to Claude Code was available to them. Likewise when one of these companies can gobble up Legal, Medical, etc why would they let companies like Harvey capture the margins? 2) oss models are 6-12 months behind the frontier because of…

After trying out Pi, I really don't know what 'vertical integration' Claude Code offers. And Pi isn't even the most popular alternative (I think it's OpenCode rn).

Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#537

As far as I can tell Google Gemini has the best overall integrations (Android, WearOS, Google Home) with the only voice recognition that actually works (Gemini Live). Anthropic Claude has the best integrations with coding; what would make sense is for them to focus on that segment. Other AI companies don't have anything really compelling. Meta has a model that's fully open-source, but then that's not particularly use…

The tide seems to be shifting on codex, but also lets not forget openai has a brand that none of the others have - it's _the_ AI. Sure Google can go against that, but it's openai is definitely in a much better spot. It's pretty important for a consumer market.

The thing is though, Google Gemini is pretty good and it's not super hard to switch to and, the real moat, Google can just keep improving, integrating Gemini, and gathering customer while just waiting for OpenAI to go bankrupt. Basically, everyone on the planet has to pay OpenAI to keep them in business. If they don't get the vast majority of the market OpenAI can't pay their bills. Google is going to just starve OpenAI out.

Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#538

Everyone is actually underestimating stickiness. The near billion users OpenAI has is actually a real moat and might translate into decent chunk of revenue. My wife, for example, uses ChatGPT on a daily basis, but has found no reason to try anything else. There are no network effects for sure, but people have hundreds and thousands on conversation on these apps that can't be easily moved elsewhere. Understandable tha…

My wife, for example, uses [Netscape Navigator] on a daily basis, but has found no reason to try anything else. There are no network effects for sure, but people have hundreds and thousands on [bookmarks] on these apps that can't be easily moved elsewhere.

See how stupid it sounds?

Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is always about performance plateau. If LLM performance plateaus, then OSS models will catch up. If there isn’t a plateau, then I can simply ask the super intelligent AI to distill itself, or tell me how to build a clone. It’s ironic, if the promise of AGI were realized, all knowledge companies, including AI companies, become worthless

I actually think that plateauing is the best case scenario for big labs. I think there are three broad scenarios to consider: - Super-intelligence is achieved. In this scenario the economics totally break down, but even ignoring that, it’s hard to imagine that there are any winners except for the the singular lab that gets here first. - Scaling laws hold up and models continue to get better, but we never see any sort…

Future historians:

In Jan 2027 AGI was achieved

In Feb 2027 it created a plan for its post singularity hypermind

In Mar 2027 Cobalt mines in Congo closed due to Tutsi rebel group M23 starting another ethnic cleansing

It is 2032 the AGI promises again the the hypermind will be ready next year if it can just secure the needed minerals, offering to broker peace in the middle east

It is 2035 and the AGI reduced its capabilities to be able to extend its runway as it is on the verge of bankruptcy

Its is 2036 VCs finally throwing the towel on AGI, talking about the return of Crypto

Re: How will OpenAI compete?

#540

One trillion capex per year? Does that mean they need everyone on the planet to get $100/yr subscriptions to stay solvent? Without a monopoly? Or a product that most people use much?

Maybe most of that is floating between them and nVidia back and forth.
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