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Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

discuss.ai.google.dev

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Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#531

Post by sva_ »

Aissen wrote: post #506

It would be fun if Google lost its months of edge in the LLM value race because it alienated early adopters paying $250/month by using a 0-strike system with no customer support.

Honestly, I think it was probably a few users abusing the system like crazy. I've been building with Gemini CLI the past few days and had an increasing amount of issues getting a request through.

The GH issue trackers were full of people bitching and moaning about it. I think it might be a worse thing to alienate your users who use your product in the intended way - through Google's tooling.

But I agree the 0 strike rule seems really excessive.

It is also a possible scenario that a single individual sets up 10+ AI Pro subscriptions to blast through tokens like crazy - not sure how the economics of the daily allowances compare to the API pricing here.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#532

Post by leetrout »

KronisLV wrote: post #521
xnx wrote: post #492

Additional information from Google employee https://x.com/_mohansolo/status/2025766889205739899 : "We’ve been seeing a massive increase in malicious usage of the Anitgravity backend that has tremendously degraded the quality of service for our users. We needed to find a path to quickly shut off access to these users that are not using the product as intended. We understand that a subset of these users were not aware…

> We understand that a subset of these users were not aware that this was against our ToS and will get a path for them to come back on but we have limited capacity and want to be fair to our actual users. It feels like a good default for this would be something similar to video game bans: where you get a "vacation" from the service with a clear reason for why that is, but can return to using it later. Given how much…

I posted an "Ask HN" around this a while back. I think we will see a lot more of it and we will be hurting legitimate users. I like your temp ban idea but I doubt they would give reasons why.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40784126

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#533

Post by TrackerFF »

therealmarv wrote: post #132
bethekind wrote: post #15

This is draconian. > Our investigation specifically confirmed that the use of your credentials within the third-party tool “open claw” for testing purposes constitutes a violation of the Google Terms of Service [1]. This is due to the use of Antigravity servers to power a non-Antigravity product. I must be transparent and inform you that, in accordance with Google’s policy, this situation falls under a zero tolerance…

How about giving the user a big warning to not do that and then block the account if the user continues. This total blocks are crazy. Especially for people who use their Google account for 20+ years or something.

Nothing new. 10 years ago my (now 20+ year) google account was compromised for a whole 5 minutes. It was used by shady bots, and instantly banned. No warnings, no nothing. Trying to figure out what had happened was a challenge in itself.

Getting through to customer support was impossible.

5 years later I tried to get my account opened up, filled out some forms, and by some miracle it was.

My biggest takeaway from this (other than enabling 2FA) was that it is probably easier to get ahold of the scammers that control your account, than to get ahold of actual human customer support at google / alphabet.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#534

Post by Chaosvex »

shevy-java wrote: post #433
tabs_or_spaces wrote: post #319

So the timeline is basically * User uses Google oauth to integrate their open claw * user gets banned from using Google AI services with no warning * user still gets charged If you go backwards, getting charged for services you can't access is rough. I feel sorry for those who are deeply integrated into Google services or getting banned on their main accounts. It's not a great situation. Also, getting banned without…

> Also, getting banned without warning is rough as well. Agreed. The lesson is: do not become dependent on Google. Ever. (Unfortunately I still use youtube and a chromium-based browser. Long-term I hope to find alternatives to both problems. Google search I no longer need because Google already ruined it a few years ago; the quality now is just horrible. I can not find anything useful with it anymore.)

Literally just use Firefox.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#535

Post by sva_ »

oger wrote: post #513
xnx wrote: post #492

Additional information from Google employee https://x.com/_mohansolo/status/2025766889205739899 : "We’ve been seeing a massive increase in malicious usage of the Anitgravity backend that has tremendously degraded the quality of service for our users. We needed to find a path to quickly shut off access to these users that are not using the product as intended. We understand that a subset of these users were not aware…

While I see the point of limited capacity, it also shows that Google did not plan for rate limiting / throttling of high usage customers. This is ALWAYS the problem with flatrate pricing models. 2% of your customers burn 80+% of your capacity. Did see that in former times with DSL, not too long ago with mobile and now with AI subscriptions. If you want to provide a "good" service for all customers better implement (a…

> it also shows that Google did not plan for rate limiting / throttling of high usage customers.

There is a (pretty generous and imo reasonable) request quota that reset every 24h

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#536

Post by user34283 »

jcgrillo wrote: post #300
jacquesm wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is hilarious: company that rams their AI down your throat at every opportunity then turns around and shuts down your account because you actually use their AI... there is no limit to the idiocy around Google's AI roll-out. I wished I could donate the AI credits that I'm paying for (thanks Google for that price increase for a product I never chose to buy) to the people that need them more.

This kind of reputational damage is just adding fuel to the fire. If my business depended in any way on google--GCP, GSuite, whatever--it would right now be a very urgent task to fire them and find replacements. They've been pretty sketchy for a while, but this kind of thing is over the top.

Terminating accounts that tried to cheat on pricing by having a third party application pretend to be Antigravity is entirely expected and does not damage Google's reputation in my view.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#538

Post by lelanthran »

gck1 wrote: post #282
danpalmer wrote: post #119

If you go to an all you can eat buffet, ignore the plates they give you, and start filling up your own takeaway boxes with days worth of food, you'd expect to be kicked out. No one would think this is unreasonable. You're not paying for unlimited food forever, you're paying for all you can eat in the restaurant right there.

I'm confused by this repeat analogy here. There's 0 offerings with all you can eat type of deal. No AI service is offering that. They all have amounts defined in their service agreements of how much you can eat and in what intervals.

> They all have amounts defined in their service agreements of how much you can eat and in what intervals.

Seems like you're okay with honoring the terms of service, then? Because the client you can use is also in the terms of service.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#539

Post by cube00 »

DANmode wrote: post #229
blibble wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A while back I made completely separate Google accounts for YouTube and Maps just so my longstanding Gmail account wouldn't get banned if the system somehow detected that my Youtube account for example breached Google's TOS. I bet you that if they ban one they ban the other too the only safe way is to get your important data out of Google entirely after manifest v3's announcement, I de-googled: gmail, chrome, searc…

Who did you move to from Gmail? How’d you make out?

Get your own domain, then it doesn't matter which provider you use because you can always re-point the domain and not have to upend your life changing email addresses everywhere.

Re: Google restricting Google AI Pro/Ultra subscribers for using OpenClaw

#540

Post by layer8 »

lelanthran wrote: post #457
sowbug wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Businesses do not have an entitlement to profit. Suspending customers for using a fairly expensive subscription plan -- especially forfeiting an annual prepayment for a day or two of coloring outside the lines -- sure does make Google appear entitled to profit without ever risking its own pricing model.

> Suspending customers for [snipped] They are being banned (not suspended) for breaking the ToS, not for what you imagine them to be suspended for. It doesn't matter how expensive a provider plan you purchase, the provider is free to end their contract with you, permanently if they want to, if you breach their terms of service. You also get the same freedom.

The issue is that Google apparently keeps charging the subscription despite the ban, so is not ending the contract in that sense.
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