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Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

reuters.com

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Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#531

Post by slibhb »

What's better? Artists competing for the mass public, artists trying to please individual rich patrons, or artists trying to placate some government commission?

I think a mix is fine. But there are disadvantages if you weigh too heavily on the latter two. In Europe, there's already quite a lot of government subsidies for art. Try finding a British or French movie that doesn't open by announcing its connection with some government subsidy program. While I quite like quite a lot of what Europe produces (especially cinema), in the long run I suspect it won't be sustainable. Whereas the free(r) market approach of e.g. the US and Japan will end up ahead.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#532

Post by throwaway74628 »

relistan wrote: post #509
throwaway74628 wrote: post #491

A novel treatment for the proverbial dying man. I understand that this program is currently assigned at random but it’s prudent to assume that they’ll shift to a “merit based” system before long i.e. sweetheart deals for members of the right clique, nepotism, and the occasional worthwhile project. For concrete examples, look no further than the content funded and produced by the national broadcaster, RTE. Aside from…

Alternatively, it's successful and is expanded to support more artists in the future. Cynicism with governance not unjustified in Ireland, but here we are looking at some actual progress.

Artists picked at random will still be subject to existing conditions, those best able to maneuver within the social and political currents will inevitably outperform those who cannot. Those running the program are ill-equipped to define it’s success, being part of the same regime which routinely delivers bottom-of-the-barrel slop.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#533

Post by bagacrap »

Daub wrote: post #234
GaryNumanVevo wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> crap art that no one wanted. Through the kunstuitleen they leased and sold art to galleries and private homes. It was like a library for contemporary art which paid struggling artists and their families, while also exposing the public to more art. To say that "no one wanted" is a massively overblown. Thousands of art pieces lived happily in many Dutch homes.

OK, maybe my use of that phrase was a bit ill-judged. However, aside from supporting artists, what did the initiative achieve? Keeping artists off the dole should not be, IMHO, a goal in itself. The reputation of Dutch culture at the time was not brilliant, though neither was it bad. A strategic attitude would have been more effective... maybe target one or two artists and promote them. The Young British Artists (YBA…

How is this keeping artists off the dole anyway? Sounds like keeping them on it.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#534

Post by [deleted] »

slibhb wrote: post #531

What's better? Artists competing for the mass public, artists trying to please individual rich patrons, or artists trying to placate some government commission? I think a mix is fine. But there are disadvantages if you weigh too heavily on the latter two. In Europe, there's already quite a lot of government subsidies for art. Try finding a British or French movie that doesn't open by announcing its connection with so…

[deleted]

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#536

Post by some_random »

bagacrap wrote: post #522
jjgreen wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Love, honesty, kindness, ..., none of these have value?

Working a 9-5 to support one's loved ones; an honest day's work; generosity. It's quite easy to connect each of these values to money.

Yeah ok now what's the value of verisimilitude? /s

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#537

Post by specialist »

CalRobert wrote: post #227

The frustrating thing about this program is that it is not possible to avail of this unless you are ALREADY an artist. So if you gave up art because you had bills and kids and needed to support yourself or a family, you're SOL. The only person I know getting this money was already semi-retired after selling their house in London and retiring to the Irish countryside, and basically just noodles around on the guitar no…

Becoming a working artist requires sacrifice and commitment.

Joshua Citarella (Doomscroll podcast) often talks about the practicalities of producing art.

In 1970's a (starving) artist worked part-time job (eg waiter), enabling them to focus on their craft most of the week.

Today, typical artist has to hustle, juggling 3 jobs, and can only focus once per week on their one day off work.

Further, "entry level" jobs are unpaid / underpaid. Such as internships at a museum or newspaper. Ditto teaching positions.

Consequently, only affluent persons are able to break into the creative disciplines (production of culture). Trust funds, nepotism, and other lottery winners.

--

I, for one, enthusiastically support heavily subsidizing both creative and caring work. All those "not-for-profit" gigs and unpaid labor. They're the grease that keeps society working. Despite not being tabulated in someone's payroll accounting system.

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#539

Post by closewith »

Supernaut wrote: post #527
closewith wrote: post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for linking the CBA. I hadn't seen that before > "The headline finding from this social CBA is that for every €1 of public money invested in the pilot, society received €1.39 in return" Okay, so if you read the CBA, the net fiscal cost of the pilot was: * Gross pilot cost (2021–2025): ~€114 MM * Tax revenue: ~€36 MM * Social protection savings: ~€6.5 MM * Net fiscal cost: ~€72 MM So for every €1 of public mone…

Nicely set out. I completely agree with you. I'm also pretty certain - and I say this both as a lover of the arts and as a taxpayer - that I will see no benefit whatsoever in my life, or to society in general, from the works produced under the aegis of this programme. You know what would have been a worthwhile use of that €114 MM? Improving the pay and conditions of our naval personnel. That way, the nation might now…

Can you imagine the net WELLBY increase if the DF were paid a living wage?

Re: Ireland rolls out basic income scheme for artists

#540

Post by BSDobelix »

_heimdall wrote: post #513
BSDobelix wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Killing the idea of basic income would be a good thing. Maybe we have a different look on basic income, for me it's like unemployment money with less steps and less overhead (less bureaucrats). I also dont know why you pull in marxism, but those systems normally starve because of bureaucrats (hello germany) where you have to fill out 10 papers to create one praline, and NO i dont say germany is "marxist", but they a…

I raise Marx because going from people having what they earn to having what they need was pretty fundamental to the utopia he envisioned. A UBI is a huge step in that direction, complete with a state given the power to decide what we need and control distribution of resources. I'd expect the state would eventually need to take control of the means of production to stabilize the system, another big step towards Marxis…

Fair, i dont what to discuss that here (not in a writing mood atm), but would be a good theme to talk about and drinking a beer.
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