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Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

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Re: Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

#531

Post by tymscar »

simonw wrote: post #160
systemf_omega wrote: post #8

What I don't understand about this whole "get on board the AI train or get left behind" narrative, what advantage does an early adopter have for AI tools? The way I see it, I can just start using AI once they get good enough for my type of work. Until then I'm continuing to learn instead of letting my brain atrophy.

This is a pretty common position: "I don't worry about getting left behind - it will only take a few weeks to catch up again". I don't think that's true. I'm really good at getting great results out of coding agents and LLMs. I've also been using LLMs for code on an almost daily basis since ChatGPT's release on November 30th 2022. That's more than three years ago now. Meanwhile I see a constant flow of complaints fro…

I think you are right in saying that there is some deep intuition that takes months, if not years, to hone about current models, however, the intuition some who did nothing but talk and use LLMs nonstop two years ago would be just as good today as someone who started from scratch, if not worse because of antipatterns that don’t apply anymore, such as always starting a new chat and never using a CLI because of context drift.

Also, Simon, with all due respect, and I mean it, I genuinely look in awe at the amount of posts you have on your blog and your dedication, but it’s clear to anyone that the projects you created and launched before 2022 far exceed anything you’ve done since. And I will be the first to say that I don’t think that’s because of LLMs not being able to help you. But I do think it’s because what makes you really, really good at engineering you kept replacing slowly but surely with LLMs more and more by the month.

If I look at Django, I can clearly see your intelligence, passion, and expertise there. Do you feel that any of the projects you’ve written since LLMs are the main thing you focus on are similar?

Think about it this way: 100% of you wins against 100% of me any day. 100% of Claude running on your computer is the same as 100% of Claude running on mine. 95% of Claude and 5% of you, while still better than me (and your average Joe), is nowhere near the same jump from 95% Claude and 5% me.

I do worry when I see great programmers like you diluting their work.

Re: Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

#532

Post by etra0 »

frizlab wrote: post #119
embedding-shape wrote: post #95

> But what was the fire inside you, when you coded till night to see your project working? It was building. I feel like this is not the same for everyone. For some people, the "fire" is literally about "I control a computer", for others "I'm solving a problem for others", and yet for others "I made something that made others smile/cry/feel emotions" and so on. I think there is a section of programmer who actually do…

> I think there is a section of programmer who actually do like the actual typing of letters, numbers and special characters into a computer, and for them, I understand LLMs remove the fun part. Exactly me.

Same for me, sadly.

One of the reasons why I learned vim was because I enjoy staying in the keyboard; I'm a fast typer and part of the fun is typing out the code I'm thinking.

I can see how some folks only really like seeing the final product rather than the process of building it but I'm just not cut for that — I hate entrepreneurship for the same reason, I enjoy the building part more than the end.

And it's the part that's killing me with all this hype.

Re: Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

#533

Post by deepsquirrelnet »

trinsic2 wrote: post #513

If it wasn't for companies gate keeping, buying up all the compute, putting an huge load on our infrastructure, people and government using it to surveil its people I would be more supportive of it. But right now, you got to be insane to be supporting this technology. Its literally being used to do more harm than good. I don't see any end to this. I cannot and will not support a surveillance state in the name of prog…

I don’t think “supporting” a technology or not has the same effect as supporting a political position or lack thereof. You can be pro-AI and pro regulation of AI.

You’re right, there’s no end of things that are legal (except by making those things illegal).

Re: Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

#534

Post by simonw »

tymscar wrote: post #531
simonw wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a pretty common position: "I don't worry about getting left behind - it will only take a few weeks to catch up again". I don't think that's true. I'm really good at getting great results out of coding agents and LLMs. I've also been using LLMs for code on an almost daily basis since ChatGPT's release on November 30th 2022. That's more than three years ago now. Meanwhile I see a constant flow of complaints fro…

I think you are right in saying that there is some deep intuition that takes months, if not years, to hone about current models, however, the intuition some who did nothing but talk and use LLMs nonstop two years ago would be just as good today as someone who started from scratch, if not worse because of antipatterns that don’t apply anymore, such as always starting a new chat and never using a CLI because of context…

My great regret from the past few years is that experimenting with LLMs has been such a huge distraction from my other work! My https://llm.datasette.io/ tool is from that era though, and it's pretty cool.

Re: Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

#535

Post by grayhatter »

simonw wrote: post #160
systemf_omega wrote: post #8

What I don't understand about this whole "get on board the AI train or get left behind" narrative, what advantage does an early adopter have for AI tools? The way I see it, I can just start using AI once they get good enough for my type of work. Until then I'm continuing to learn instead of letting my brain atrophy.

This is a pretty common position: "I don't worry about getting left behind - it will only take a few weeks to catch up again". I don't think that's true. I'm really good at getting great results out of coding agents and LLMs. I've also been using LLMs for code on an almost daily basis since ChatGPT's release on November 30th 2022. That's more than three years ago now. Meanwhile I see a constant flow of complaints fro…

Show me what you've made with AI?

What's the impressive thing that can convince me it's equivalent, or better than anything created before, or without it?

I understand you've produced a lot of things, and that your clout (which depends on the AI ferver) is based largely because of how refined a workflow you've invented. But I want to see the product, rather than the hype.

Make me say; I wish I was good enough to create this!

Without that, all I can see is the cost, or the negative impact.

edit: I've read some of your other posts, and for my question, I'd like to encourage you to pick only one. Don't use the scatter shot approach that LLMs love, giving plenty of examples, hoping I'll ignore the noise for the single that sounds interesting.

Pick only one. What project have you created that you're truly proud of?

I'll go first, (even though it's unfinished): Verse

Re: Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

#536

Post by themk »

ironman1478 wrote: post #348

I'm not sure what to make of these technologies. I read about people doing all these things with them and it sounds impressive. Then when I use it, it feels like the tool produces junior level code unless I babysit it, then it really can produce what I want. If I have to do all this babysitting, is it really saving me anything other than typing the code? It hasn't felt like it yet and if anything it's scary because I…

> and reading code is harder than writing it.

This is the things thar gets me the most. Code review is _hard_. So hard that I'm convinced my colleagues don't do it and just slap "LGTM" on everything.

We are trading "one writer, one reader" for "two readers", and it seems like a bad deal.

Re: Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

#537

Post by trinsic2 »

deepsquirrelnet wrote: post #533
trinsic2 wrote: post #513

If it wasn't for companies gate keeping, buying up all the compute, putting an huge load on our infrastructure, people and government using it to surveil its people I would be more supportive of it. But right now, you got to be insane to be supporting this technology. Its literally being used to do more harm than good. I don't see any end to this. I cannot and will not support a surveillance state in the name of prog…

I don’t think “supporting” a technology or not has the same effect as supporting a political position or lack thereof. You can be pro-AI and pro regulation of AI. You’re right, there’s no end of things that are legal (except by making those things illegal).

> You can be pro-AI and pro regulation of AI.

Not in this climate. The laws are being circumvented by criminals. Everything is different now. You can tell yourself all you want that its ok to support a technology that is being used to enslave us, but its not going to change the outcome, we are still being harmed by people that have control over the technology.

The best thing to do right now is to stop supporting the tech where its being used by corporations that are in the business of harming the people by there actions and inaction.

Re: Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

#538

Post by Madmallard »

epolanski wrote: post #503
burgerone wrote: post #416

There's this infinite war between the two opposing sides. "It's going to change programming forever" vs "Why not just use your brain". I much prefer option two for all the good reasons. Saying that AI is awesome doesn't actually adress all its issues.

There's no war, it's just that the internet pushes the more controversial narratives up. The overwhelming majority of users use and see the benefits of AI and at the same time are fully aware that you won't move software by copy pasting a jira task and lots of thinking is involved into planning and reviewing the changes.

Lol there's definitely a war on hacker news

There's vested interests posting 20 replies in a single thread that benefits them and flagging replies that don't

There's literally 20-25% of dissenters comments in each of these posts being repeatedly flagged.

Re: Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

#539

Post by deepsquirrelnet »

trinsic2 wrote: post #537
deepsquirrelnet wrote: post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think “supporting” a technology or not has the same effect as supporting a political position or lack thereof. You can be pro-AI and pro regulation of AI. You’re right, there’s no end of things that are legal (except by making those things illegal).

> You can be pro-AI and pro regulation of AI. Not in this climate. The laws are being circumvented by criminals. Everything is different now. You can tell yourself all you want that its ok to support a technology that is being used to enslave us, but its not going to change the outcome, we are still being harmed by people that have control over the technology. The best thing to do right now is to stop supporting the…

Not that I disagree with you, but the dangerous part is rogue government. No amount of anti-AI will make up for a government not working for the good of its people.

Re: Don't fall into the anti-AI hype

#540

Post by Madmallard »

deepsquirrelnet wrote: post #533
trinsic2 wrote: post #513

If it wasn't for companies gate keeping, buying up all the compute, putting an huge load on our infrastructure, people and government using it to surveil its people I would be more supportive of it. But right now, you got to be insane to be supporting this technology. Its literally being used to do more harm than good. I don't see any end to this. I cannot and will not support a surveillance state in the name of prog…

I don’t think “supporting” a technology or not has the same effect as supporting a political position or lack thereof. You can be pro-AI and pro regulation of AI. You’re right, there’s no end of things that are legal (except by making those things illegal).

They are stealing trillions in assets lol

And destroying the gaming industry and altering the energy grid and pooping on the environment

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