I don't understand the threat model that banks worry about on rooted phones.
What is it? I can access their websites on a PC running as root or Administrator. What is the problem with rooted Android phones?
The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app
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Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app
#532Earlier quoted context omitted.
What app developers find most valuable is what other apps you use and what competitors apps you have so they can target you more effectively. If you have Peloton or Tonal, they want to know if you have the Strava app on your phone for example.
Only on older versions of Android. Apps are very locked down on what you can get. I would have loved to be able to fingerprint a device when i was at the challenger bank and application list is very good for fingerprinting.. We would fingerprint on the web to detect bots.
Did you know about this workaround? Afaik it's still active
https://peabee.substack.com/p/everyone-knows-what-apps-you-u...
Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app
#533Earlier quoted context omitted.
If the only damage is personal (they lose their own money), why can't we make them responsible for their choices?
Because enough people losing their own money in the same way becomes a social ill. Much in the same way we try to limit physical addiction, which hypothetically only affects the person taking the substance, and gambling (though we're moving backwards on sports betting). Some hypothetical social ills: 1 If it's a good source of money, it becomes more ubiquitous. This leads to entire illegal markets, which will typical…
For sake of completeness, another important reason:
4. These kinds of "social ills" hypothetically affecting only individuals, actually spill over to affect their families, and, at scale, communities.
That being said, in most cases it still doesn't justify this level of drastic intervention. Otherwise, cigarettes and alcohol and even Lotto would've been banned out of existence by fiat.
Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app
#534Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you guys wear cargo pants to carry all these extra devices or are belt clips coming back into style? If I could get away with carrying a tiny device again instead of lugging around a brick I would, but the world has made it as inconvenient as possible not to. A BlackBerry from 15 years ago weighed just over 100g and did 80% of what your modern-day pocket computer can.
I mean, did it do 80% of the stuff? Devices have changed a lot.
I've never used a Blackberry but it was much more efficient for me to input text (an essential task for a communication device!) on non-iPhone-style phones with physical buttons.
Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app
#535One more reason for phones to be modularized. Separate the comms from the (owner-controlled) computer module until needed. Use different CPU module when needed. Swap out battery module.
Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app
#536So, if you cannot cryptographically prove to a remote server that your device is running essentially unmodified, vendor-signed software, you are locked out of the economy? The irrefutable part here is that the security model works. Locking down the bootloader and enforcing TEE signatures does stop malware. But it also kills user agency. We are moving to a model where the user is considered the adversary on their own…
Consumer level security always has to contend with the lowest common denominator. As my 80 year-old mother‘s technical support team I can testify that she will download and install anything she sees on Facebook. The consumer security world has to protect us from people like her. It’s also the reason I will only allow her iOS devices.
Maybe people like her should just, uh, not use technology? Or not do it as much? The fact that the society so heavily pushes everyone — regardless of their technical literacy and willingness to learn — to use internet-connected devices is also a huge part of the problem.
Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app
#537Earlier quoted context omitted.
In other areas of life, people self-select at their own risk. You can diagnose medical issues yourself, buy power tools you don't know how to use safely, and invest in assets that you don't understand. All other things being equal, we should try to protect people. But we shouldn't force everyone to make the choices that are best for the people with the least comprehension of what they're doing.
Have you ever seen government officials talk about tech? I think you'd have to be naive to buy the narrative that they're making such a large policy decision for our security. Of the few people using rooted phones to begin with, there's even fewer that don't know what they're doing. Much more likely is this is a decision to get in line with the well documented and rapidly spreading surveillance laws of the past few y…
It's not that I believe it, it's that that would be the only legitimate justification, and I'm don't suggesting even _that_ doesn't hold water.
Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app
#538And so it begins... Or continues...
Apple is already a walled garden, granting you only access to your hardware and they see fit. Google desperately wants to follow suit by enforcing developer registration (which is just the first step). And now this. This is will happen in the EU and US as well.
And always in the name of security, safety, or "will nobody think of the children?!"
My hardware, my choice, period.
Re: The Vietnam government has banned rooted phones from using any banking app
#539Earlier quoted context omitted.
In other areas of life, people self-select at their own risk. You can diagnose medical issues yourself, buy power tools you don't know how to use safely, and invest in assets that you don't understand. All other things being equal, we should try to protect people. But we shouldn't force everyone to make the choices that are best for the people with the least comprehension of what they're doing.
You can’t freely sell devices to let others self-diagnose medical issues, so this part of your analogy doesn’t hold up in the case of phone sales. We also limit investing in certain types of investments to so-called “accredited investors” which is just legal jargon for “millionaires”. I don’t think the point you are trying to make about letting people own-goal is as strong as you think it is. (I would have gone with…
I'm not certain what you're advocating for here?
If you are interested in the public good, I think it is pretty clear that we should ban roulette overnight since it has a negative expected value for everyone but the casino. On the other hand (still presuming you're interested in the public good), I think you have to consider very carefully whether it's good or bad to lock people out of investments or to restrict people's access to health care.