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The future of software development is software developers

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531–540 of 588 posts

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right I’m a bot made to promote AI like half the people on this thread. I don’t know if you noticed a difference from other hype cycles but other ones were speculative. This one is also speculative but the greater divide is that the literal on the ground usefulness of AI is ALREADY going to change the world. The speculation is that the AI will get better and will no longer need hand holding.

>AI is ALREADY going to change the world. Nice slop response. This is the same thing said about blockchain and NFTs, same schtick, different tech. The only thing "AI" has done is convince some people that it's a magical being that knows everything. Your comments seem to be somewhere on that spectrum. And, sure what if it isn't changing the world for the better, and actually makes things much worse? You're probably ok…

>This is nonsense. No AI is going to produce what someone wants without telling it exactly what to do and how to do it, so yes, it will always need hand holding, unless you like slurping up slop. I don't know you, if you aren't a bot, you might just be satisfied with slop? It's a race to the bottom, and it's not going to end up the way you think it will.

You're not thinking clearly. A couple years ago we didn't even have AI who could do this, then chatGPT came out we had AI who could barely do it, then we had AI who could do simple tasks with A lot of hand holding, now we have AI who can do complex human tasks with minimal hand holding. Where do you think the trendline is pointing.

Your hypothesis is going against all evidence. It's more wishful thinking and irrational. It's a race to the bottom because you wish it will be a race to the bottom, and we both know the trendline is pointing in the opposite direction.

>We've seen what social media and every-waking-hour access to tablets and the internet has done to kids - so much harm that some countries have banned social media for people under a certain age. I can see a future where "AI" will also be banned for minors to use, probably pretty soon too. The harms from "AI" being able to placate instead of create should be obvious, and children shouldn't be able to use it without adult supervision.

I agree AI is bad for us. My claim is it's going to change the world and it is already replacing human tasks. That's all. Whether that's good or bad for us is an ORTHOGANOL argument.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use Claude code. My experience comes from the fact that after over a decade of working as a swe I no longer write code. It’s not some alternate reality thing or reading headlines. It’s my daily life that has changed.

> I no longer write code do you review it before checking it in?

Have you used AI before? Agentic systems are set up so it gives you a diff before even making committing to a change. Sounds like you haven’t really used AI agentically yet.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're all referencing the strange idea in a world where there would be no open-weight coding models trained in the future. Even in a world where VC spending vanished completely, coding models are such a valuable utility that I'm sure at the very least companies/individuals would crowdsource them on a reoccurring basis, keeping them up to date. The value of this technology has been established, it's not leaving anyti…

SOTA models cost hundreds of millions to train. I doubt anyone is crowdsourcing that. And that’s assuming you already have a lot of the infrastructure in place.

I think faang and the like would probably crowdsource it given that they would—according to the hypothesis presented—would only have to do it every few years, and ostensibly are realizing improved developer productivity from them.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#534
post #334

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I have been using the most recent Claude, ChatGPT and Gemini models for coding for a bit more than a year, on a daily basis. They are pretty good at writing code *after* I thoroughly described what to do, step by step. If you miss a small detail they get loose and the end result is a complete mess that takes hours to clean up. This still requires years of coding experience, planning ahead in head, you won't be able t…

Yes what you are describing is exactly what Kiro solves

> Through Kiro, we reinvented how developers work with AI agents.

Even according to it’s documentation it is still built for developers, so my point still stands. You need dev experience to use this tool, same as other LLM-based coding tools.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#535
post #210

> Edgar Dijkstra called it nearly 50 years ago: we will never be programming in English, or French, or Spanish. Natural languages have not evolved to be precise enough and unambiguous enough. Semantic ambiguity and language entropy will always defeat this ambition. This is the most important quote for any AI coding discussion. Anyone that doesn't understand how the tools they use came to be is doomed to reinvent them…

> These are the same people that create applications in MS Excel. Ones that want their application to work? :) the last piece of software you should be knocking is MS Excel, in my 30+ year career the one common thread just about everywhere I worked (or contracted at) has used Excel to run some amazing sh*t

I think programmets often underestimate the power of Excel for non-programmers, it in practice runs the business world.

I think that it also is a comparable to the ai side we see now. Do something for real, use real database or programmer. Non-programmer needs something, vibe code or excel

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#536
post #404
post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use the Copilot extension in VS Code, which links back to my enterprise GitHub account, where I have Claude Sonnet 4.5 available amongst other things. I'm not familiar with Opus. I just open the Copilot Chat window in my VS Code, configure it to use Sonnet 4.5, tell it what I need and it writes the responses and code for me. I'm not using it for large tasks. Most of my usage is "examine this codebase and tell me ho…

The Copilot extension in VS Code includes Opus as well. It costs three times as much as Claude, so I'd expect it to perform better or be able to handle more complex tasks, but if you're happy with Claude - I am too - more power to you.

s/Claude/Sonnet/

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#537

Most people in this thread are quibbling about the exact degree of utility LLMs provide, which a tedious argument. What's more interesting to me is, per the article, the concern regarding everyone who is leaning into LLMs without realizing (or downplaying) the exorbitant, externalized cost. Our current LLM usage is being subsidized to the point of being free by outside investment. One day when the well runs dry, you…

LLMs cannot generate coherent sentences LLMs writing prose is too robotic LLMs output is too dependent on prompts to be interesting LLMs take too much RAM to run effectively LLMs take too much electricity to run locally LLMs work locally but are a bit too slow for my taste LLMs output mostly correct code but it isn't applicable to my codebase LLMs make tool calls to pull in additional context LLMs outputted code work…

isn't this template supposed to mean that all the previous considerations are now obsolete?

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s crazy how different my experience is. I think perhaps it’s incredibly important what programming language you are using, what your project and architecture is like. Agents are making an extraordinary contribution to my productivity. If they jacked my Claude Code subscription up to $500/month I would be upset but almost certainly would keep paying it, that’s how much value it brings. I’m in enterprise ERP.

It sounds like you use your personal Claude Code subscription for work of your employer, but that is not something I would ever consider doing personally so I imagine I must be mistaken. Can you elaborate slightly on what you pay for personally and what your employer pays for with regards to using LLMs for Enterprise ERP?

Freelancers regularly use tools such as Copilot and Claude, it's always handled professionally and in agreement with their customers. I've seen other freelancers do it plenty of times in the last 1-2 years at my customer sites.

Why so narrow minded?

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#539
post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> One day when the well runs dry, you must be able to either pay the actual cost What multiple of the current cost do you expect? Currently, GitHub Copilot and ChatGPT for Business cost $19/month and €29/month respectively. Even a 10×–20× increase will still be economically viable in a professional setting if the tools continue to save hours of work.

These tools (e.g. Chatgpt pro) lose money at $200/month So expect, maybe, $1000 a month? Until your business is dependant on these LLMs. Then they can extract basically all your margin lol

At a $1,000/month price point, wouldn't the economics start favoring buying GPUs and running local LLMs? Even if they're weaker, local models can still cover enough use cases to justify the switch.

Re: The future of software development is software developers

#540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The variance is great this strikes me as a very important thing to reflect on. when the automobile was invented, was the apparent benefit so incredibly variable?

> was the apparent benefit so incredibly variable? Yes, lots of people were very vocally against horseless-carriages, as they were called at the time. Safety and public nuisance concerns were widespread, the cars were very noisy, fast, smoky and unreliable. Old newspapers are filled with opinions about this, from people being afraid of horseless-carriages spooking other's horses and so on. The UK restricted the adopt…

yeah I agree about the negative externalities but I'm curious about the perceived benefits. did anybody argue that cars were actually slower than horse and carriage? (were they at first?)
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