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What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

nytimes.com

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Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#531

Post by cess11 »

DocTomoe wrote: post #502
cess11 wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One difference between "AI chatbots" in this context and common flight simulator games is that someone else is listening in and has the actual control over the simulation. You're not alone in the same way that you are when pining over a character in a television series or books, or crashing a virtual jumbo jet into a skyscraper in MICROS~1 Flight Simulator.

You are aware that you can, in fact, run models on your own, fully airgapped machine, right? Ollama exists. The fact that most people chose not to is no argument for 'mandatory' surveillance, just a laissez-faire attitude towards it.

Yes. I have never connected to any of the SaaS-models and only use Nx/Bumblebee and sometimes Ollama.

In this context it's not about people like me.

Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#532

Post by whatsupdog »

survirtual wrote: post #236
whatsupdog wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Nonsense. Chimpanzees and Bonobos are our distant ancestors. Have a look at how they operate. From what I can tell, men have cause significant damage to women's psyche. Men that turn women into a commodity plaything instead of a fellow human being. Women are human beings just like men, they aren't some alien species. Trauma hurts their psyche, not pleasure. If women were in a safe, supportive, mature society, some wo…

You just proved my point. Men are undoubtedly stronger than women. Men are evolved to "spread their seed". Some men will take advantage of women whenever possible. Therefore a woman walking alone at night is not safe. Therefore a woman needs the protection of a man. You cannot change the behavior of every man. You can change some of them, even most of them. At the end, some men will keep being violent. Therefore a woman without a man's protection will never be safe. And this is already burned into their psyche.

Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#533

Post by jacquesm »

survirtual wrote: post #530
jrflowers wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> from women to me as a partner – or from female friends about the man they seek How many people are you talking about here? Like if you had to rephrase this point using numbers would you say “I’ve heard half a dozen women say this”? That aside, can you elaborate on safety as a demand ? I’ve never had a partner or friend demand safety from me, ever. The only times in my life that I have seen someone demand safety fro…

I fear our friend we're replying to here may have never had a deep relationship with the opposite sex. This is unfortunately the reality of countless men, often going their entire lives like this, with bitterness and resentment growing outwardly instead of reflection inwardly. Hijacking this response now for some advice / thoughts. So for the lurking straight men: women are simply human beings trapped in a form you d…

Thank you for a breath of fresh air after this incredibly cringy thread.

Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#534

Post by jrjeksjd8d »

scotty79 wrote: post #496
jrjeksjd8d wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that chatbots don't provide emotional support. To support someone with PTSD you help them gradually untangle the strong feelings around a stimulus and develop a less strong response. It's not fast and it's not linear but it requires a mix of empathy and facilitation. Using an LLM for social interaction instead of real treatment is like taking heroin because you broke your leg, and not getting it set or…

> To support someone with PTSD you help them gradually untangle the strong feelings around a stimulus and develop a less strong response. It's about replaying frightening thoughts and activities in safe environment. When the brain notices they don't trigger suffering it fears them less in the future. Chatbot can provide such safe environment.

> Chatbot can provide such safe environment.

It really can't. No amount of romancing a sycophantic robot is going to prepare someone to actually talk to a human being.

Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#535

Post by BeFlatXIII »

creata wrote: post #139
hereme888 wrote: post #94

This is ridiculous. The NYT, who is a huge legal enemy of OpenAI, publishes an article that uses scare tactics, to manipulate public opinion against OpenAI, by basically accusing them that "their software is unsafe for people with mental issues, or children", which is a bonkers ridiculous accusation given that ChatGPT users are adults that need to take ownership of their own use of the internet. What's the difference…

> What's the difference than an adult becoming affected by some subreddit, or even the "dark web", or 4chan forum, etc. 4chan - Actual humans generate messages, and can (in theory) be held liable for those messages. ChatGPT - A machine generates messages, so the people who developed that machine should be held liable for those messages.

How is “people who developed that machine” defined?

Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#536

Post by [deleted] »

ArcHound wrote: post #528
np- wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about men, are they allowed to play single player video games with bots in it when they have an option to play with humans? ...or are we only judging women in here?

Men and women playing single player games only with bots is a different beast, because the primary intent isn't to seek connection and emotional support. To judge men on a bad example one needn't go further than the word "waifu". That's bad. Also, to flip the previous situation, men will never admit to reading such novels. Men cannot seek emotional support from other men, that's not how it works. So in the case of in…

[deleted]

Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#537

Post by verisimi »

DocTomoe wrote: post #504
verisimi wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, great comment. What do you think of the idea that people generally don't really like other people - that they do generally disappoint and cause suffering. (We are all imperfect, imperfectly getting along together, daily initiating and supporting acts of aggression against others.) And that, if the FakePeople™ experience were good enough, probably most people would opt out of engaging with others, similar to how…

Ultimately, that's the old Star Trek 'the holodeck would - in a realistic scenario - be the last invention of a civilization' argument. I think that there will always be several strata of the population who will not be satisfied with FakePeople™, either because they are unable to interact with the system effectively due to cognitive or educational deficiencies, or because they are in a belief that RealPeople™ somehow…

Soul, yes.

You may be right, that RealPeople do seek RealInteraction.

But, how many of each RealPerson's RealInteractions are actually that - it seems to me that lots of my own historical interactions were/are RealPersonProjections. RealPersonProjections and FakePerson interactions are pretty indistinguishable from within - over time, the characterisation of an interaction can change.

But, then again, perhaps the FakePerson interactions (with AI), will be a better developmental training ground than RealPersonProjections.

Ah - I'll leave it here - its already too meta! Thanks for the exchange.

Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#538

Post by Forgeties79 »

joshtbradley wrote: post #522
Forgeties79 wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think many people are quite that myopic in their views.

Many people are. Several of my immediate family members. And several prominent intellectuals including Yudkowsky and Hinton, both fathers of the field. Yudkowsky wrote a 250 page book to say "we must limit all commercial GPU clusters to a maximum of 8." That is terrifyingly myopic, and look at the reviews on Amazon. 4.6 stars (574). That is what scares me.

Let me rephrase: most people aren’t that myopic and the viewpoint that’s driving AI development definitely skews more towards the “no restrictions or limitations of any kind” end of the spectrum anyway. You’d have a point if AI development was being choked in some way, but it’s quite the opposite:

I don’t think you need to worry that the other extreme exists as well. The obscene flow of money into AI at every stage has thus far gone almost entirely unchallenged.

Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#539

Post by DocTomoe »

cess11 wrote: post #531
DocTomoe wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are aware that you can, in fact, run models on your own, fully airgapped machine, right? Ollama exists. The fact that most people chose not to is no argument for 'mandatory' surveillance, just a laissez-faire attitude towards it.

Yes. I have never connected to any of the SaaS-models and only use Nx/Bumblebee and sometimes Ollama. In this context it's not about people like me.

Good for you!

Now ... why you want to police the decisions others make (or chose not to make) with their data ... it has a slightly paternalistic aspect to it, wouldn't you agree?

Re: What OpenAI did when ChatGPT users lost touch with reality

#540

Post by Lapsa »

Terr_ wrote: post #82
quitit wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of reasons why having a chatbot partner is a bad idea (especially for young people), but here's just a few: - The sycophantic and unchallenging behaviours of chatbots leaves a person unconditioned for human interactions. Real relationships have friction, from this we develop important interpersonal skills such as setting boundaries, settling disagreements, building compromise, standing up for oneself…

> chatbots are responding to the user's contribution only Which is also why I feel the label "LLM Psychosis" has some merit to it, despite sounding scary. Much like auditory hallucinations where voices are conveying ideas that seem-external-but-aren't... you can get actual text/sound conveying ideas that seem-external-but-aren't. Oh, sure, even a real human can repeat ideas back at you in a conversation, but there's…

are you sure they are internal? https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/9366412 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45957619
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