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In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

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Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#531

Post by wakawaka28 »

danorama wrote: post #530
wakawaka28 wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually is like a sabbatical, especially with all the modern conveniences of appliances and cars. When I hear women whine about domestic labor I have to mention that single men and women do practically the same labor, for themselves alone, and washing clothes or cooking is much easier to do for multiple people than for one person. It isn't 3x as much work to keep house for 3+ people as it is to keep house for 1.…

“Women who stay home for kids invariably watch lots of TV and maybe do three hours of actual recognizable work per day max” As a parent, I believe I speak for many when I say [citation needed].

I don't have a citation but I have eyes and I see how real parents in my life have gotten by. Besides, even if it is somehow more work than 3 hours per day, it is probably close to that amount and far more enjoyable than most jobs. If you count sitting around watching your own kids play as "work" that demands "compensation", I feel bad for you.

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#532

Post by dragonwriter »

wakawaka28 wrote: post #529
dragonwriter wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Women do not generally want men to stay at home and take care of kids. Women also demand that men make more money than themselves. For women, the period between the kids being born and going to school full-time is like a kind of sabbatical. Domestic labor and being primary caregiver for children is not, in any way, like a sabbatical.

It actually is like a sabbatical, especially with all the modern conveniences of appliances and cars. When I hear women whine about domestic labor I have to mention that single men and women do practically the same labor, for themselves alone, and washing clothes or cooking is much easier to do for multiple people than for one person. It isn't 3x as much work to keep house for 3+ people as it is to keep house for 1.…

> When I hear women whine about domestic labor I have to mention that single men and women do practically the same labor, for themselves alone, and washing clothes or cooking is much easier to do for multiple people than for one person.

That last part is very much not true, perhaps especially when children are involved.

> Women who stay home for kids invariably watch lots of TV and maybe do three hours of actual recognizable work per day max.

Maybe if you are very bad at recognizing work.

> without worrying about money

Not earning money in outside labor is not the same as not worrying about, and managing, money.

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#533

Post by naijaboiler »

buzzert wrote: post #505
ninalanyon wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Norway every child has a right to a barnehage place (kindergarten). It's not free unless you are poor but it is very affordable at a maximum of about 3 000 NOK per month, about 300 USD, for five full days a week. Children in barnehage learn to be social and cooperative, resilient and adaptable. They play outside in all weathers, learn to put on and take off their outer clothes, to set tables, help each other and t…

$300 USD per month sounds insanely expensive

i just got quoted 300/wk for 2-day daycare

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#534

Post by naijaboiler »

Retric wrote: post #372
dmitrygr wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because YOU are paying for those benefits and they aren’t. If you truly don’t see how offering something for free would attract all the freeloaders, increasing the load on those who work, there’s no saving you.

What I am describing is you literally saving money. If a government can convert a 1k outlay into 1.1k of tax revenue that same month you aren’t actually paying for those benefits you are getting a little revenue instead of zero revenue. Due to their debts operating across such long timescales people make the same basic argument for things that take longer to see positive returns, but daycare is a very short loop.

you are talking economics. you have to realize America is weird inherently racist country. Enough people here will rather be economically worse off as long as it means their taxes are not being used to support "those people"

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#535

Post by esrauch »

Workaccount2 wrote: post #395
esrauch wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a completely absurd claim that "most" people think the only reason the government isn't sending million dollar checks is hoarding. The government spending too much and the debt being large is an extremely popular talking point, at least half of everyone would say "the federal government should spend less than they do" much less million dollar checks for every person.

I don't know if I have ever met someone in the ~40% of Americans who don't pay income tax, complaining that their government benefits are going too far. The people who complain most about government spending are the people who pay a lot in taxes while only directly getting a fraction of it back in useful services. Taxes for roads and police? No Problem. Taxes for rent subsidies? Icy.

I know a number of people who pay very little taxes and enjoy tht benefit of government services, many of them are vocally against government spending despite that they would be personally harmed if they stopped

If what you are saying is true then Democrats would smash every election, "government spending too high" is demonstrably a fairly popular opinion with both low and high income based on voting.

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#536

Post by Retric »

naijaboiler wrote: post #534
Retric wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I am describing is you literally saving money. If a government can convert a 1k outlay into 1.1k of tax revenue that same month you aren’t actually paying for those benefits you are getting a little revenue instead of zero revenue. Due to their debts operating across such long timescales people make the same basic argument for things that take longer to see positive returns, but daycare is a very short loop.

you are talking economics. you have to realize America is weird inherently racist country. Enough people here will rather be economically worse off as long as it means their taxes are not being used to support "those people"

How does it make sense to suggest your taxes are going to support something when it’s profitable?

I doubt many people would say they want to raise their taxes to cancel program X because it also helps people they don’t like. You could be right, but I think the more logical conclusion is they are simply being misinformed.

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#537

Post by aaravchen »

buzzert wrote: post #505
ninalanyon wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Norway every child has a right to a barnehage place (kindergarten). It's not free unless you are poor but it is very affordable at a maximum of about 3 000 NOK per month, about 300 USD, for five full days a week. Children in barnehage learn to be social and cooperative, resilient and adaptable. They play outside in all weathers, learn to put on and take off their outer clothes, to set tables, help each other and t…

$300 USD per month sounds insanely expensive

You should talk to some people with kids then. I can't find the source, but I think the US national average is something like $1500/month for $5K/month as the cheapest they can find for full time daycare. It's significant enough that families with multiple children are often cited as being unable to have both parents with careers, because the cost of childcare far exceeds what one of them can make in their career. To be fair, this makes some sense, you're effectively paying for a portion of a child care professionals career, plus the shared overhead for facilities and supplies. If you have a decent (<8 children per professional) ratio and have 2-3 kids needing daycare, you're paying for 25-30% of someone's direct salary, plus overhead. Very few people make so much more than a trained professional that they could afford to shell out that much.

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#538

Post by frumplestlatz »

venturecruelty wrote: post #510
frumplestlatz wrote: post #422

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We had it better. We threw that away. Instead of figuring out why and fixing that, you’d apparently prefer that we take a page from the soviets and further embed our social and economic regression into law.

We did figure it out: you give poor people money and services, and they stop being poor. This isn't magic, and your desire to endlessly hurt the people you hate will not change that.

The nativity of thinking we can solve poverty by just giving people money and services, as if individual choices are totally incidental to individual outcomes.

It must be oddly soothing to live in such a simple world of your own imagination, but that’s just not how people actually work. This isn’t magic, and your suicidal empathy for those you paint as systemically marginalized will never change that.

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#539

Post by n4r9 »

wakawaka28 wrote: post #531
danorama wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Women who stay home for kids invariably watch lots of TV and maybe do three hours of actual recognizable work per day max” As a parent, I believe I speak for many when I say [citation needed].

I don't have a citation but I have eyes and I see how real parents in my life have gotten by. Besides, even if it is somehow more work than 3 hours per day, it is probably close to that amount and far more enjoyable than most jobs. If you count sitting around watching your own kids play as "work" that demands "compensation", I feel bad for you.

Wait, do you have kids yourself? Childcare days with my 2yo are much more draining than most work days. It's never a case of just sitting and watching.

Re: In a U.S. First, New Mexico Opens Doors to Free Child Care for All

#540

Post by n4r9 »

buzzert wrote: post #505
ninalanyon wrote: post #261

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Norway every child has a right to a barnehage place (kindergarten). It's not free unless you are poor but it is very affordable at a maximum of about 3 000 NOK per month, about 300 USD, for five full days a week. Children in barnehage learn to be social and cooperative, resilient and adaptable. They play outside in all weathers, learn to put on and take off their outer clothes, to set tables, help each other and t…

$300 USD per month sounds insanely expensive

Pre-school nurseries in my area typically charge around £100 ($132) per day.
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