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Android and iPhone users can now share files, starting with the Pixel 10

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Re: Android and iPhone users can now share files, starting with the Pixel 10

#531

Post by leo60228 »

madeofpalk wrote: post #417
pdpi wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can read the actual ruling at https://ec.europa.eu/competition/digital_markets_act/cases/2... This is the "smoking gun" section: 5.4.8. Implementation timing (245) Apple should provide effective interoperability with the P2P Wi-Fi connection feature by implementing the measures for Wi-Fi Aware 4.0 in the next major iOS release, i.e. iOS 19, at the latest, and for Wi-Fi Aware 5.0 in the next iOS release at the lat…

But does Apple use/allow Airdrop over Wi-Fi Aware? It's not clear to me that's something they shipped.

They don't. Google implemented AWDL, as can be trivially proven by just running `strings` on the new code in Play Services.

Re: Android and iPhone users can now share files, starting with the Pixel 10

#532

Post by leo60228 »

wtallis wrote: post #521
e44858 wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"you will need a Wi-Fi card supporting active monitor mode with frame injection" https://github.com/seemoo-lab/owl

Yeah, I saw that. I'm pretty sure that's a statement more about the drivers than the underlying hardware. Open-source drivers often have more limited feature support than the underlying hardware. I doubt anyone is producing WiFi chips that cannot transmit arbitrary software-constructed WiFi frames, or capture and relay to software all the frames they hear, and ACK frames as needed while doing so. But it's very easy t…

Active monitor mode doesn't allow using AWDL while staying connected to a regular Wi-Fi network. That needs special firmware support.

Re: Android and iPhone users can now share files, starting with the Pixel 10

#533

Post by leo60228 »

codethief wrote: post #241

Do we know yet whether this will require Google Play Services and the like on Android? Or, worse, SafetyNet? I dream of using this on GrapheneOS without any Google stuff.

All of the code for this (including AWDL, at least to an extent) is implemented as part of Play Services, unfortunately.

Re: Android and iPhone users can now share files, starting with the Pixel 10

#534

Post by leo60228 »

esbranson wrote: post #468

As mentioned by others, this apparently uses Wi-Fi Aware (aka Neighbor Awareness Networking or NAN). I'd be interested to know if the wpa_supplicant NAN interfaces can be used.[1] [1] https://w1.fi/cgit/hostap/tree/wpa_supplicant/README-NAN-USD

It does not. AirDrop, and to my knowledge all other Apple functionality, still uses AWDL. For backwards compatibility reasons, the EU did not require Apple remove AWDL, just that any improvements benefiting AWDL also affect Wi-Fi Aware. The EU also did not require Apple make AirDrop interoperable, only that they stop disadvantaging third-party competitors in certain ways (and those changes aren't implemented in iOS 26, the deadline for it is next year). Google's implementation was purely done via reverse-engineering, similarly to the existing OpenDrop project.

Re: Android and iPhone users can now share files, starting with the Pixel 10

#535

Post by leo60228 »

issafram wrote: post #506

I've for a Pixel 8 Pro, with the latest Android version. I hope they enable this in the future. No reason for it to be only for the 10+

The Wi-Fi radio's firmware has to have special support for communicating via AWDL while staying connected to an access point. The blog post does say that they plan to expand support to other devices, though.

Re: Android and iPhone users can now share files, starting with the Pixel 10

#536

Post by leo60228 »

hu3 wrote: post #399
dmitrygr wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

0, this is reverse engineered AirDrop protocol. Implementations have been around for a while, eg: https://github.com/seemoo-lab/opendrop

If implemntations have been around for a while but it only happened now, then it's 99% chance that's it's Apple backpedalling and trying to weasel their way around DMA. They got smoked in court, see ruling at https://ec.europa.eu/competition/digital_markets_act/cases/2... 5.4.8. Implementation timing (245) Apple should provide effective interoperability with the P2P Wi-Fi connection feature by implementing the measur…

These rulings only affect third-party apps, not AirDrop. Apple is not required to stop using AWDL for system apps, and is also not required to allow third-party implementations of the AirDrop protocol. They are however required to implement a mechanism allowing competing solutions to automatically trigger a prompt to install their own iOS apps, but the deadline for that isn't until next year and they have not yet shipped it.

Re: Android and iPhone users can now share files, starting with the Pixel 10

#537

Post by leo60228 »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #264

Is iPhone still abstracting files away into some kind of seamless data experience for the end user or does is finally understand what files are for?

Things have inverted: iOS now has a user-visible filesystem apps can expose their data in, while current Android versions model everything around "documents" sourced from "document providers" with major performance and functionality limitations.

Re: Android and iPhone users can now share files, starting with the Pixel 10

#538

Post by leo60228 »

bob1029 wrote: post #477

Now do Universal Clipboard: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102430 You don't realize how much you needed this until you use it a few times.

KDE Connect makes this work between all combinations Windows/macOS/Linux and iOS/Android: https://kdeconnect.kde.org/

Unfortunately, due to privacy restrictions on modern versions of both iOS and Android, updating the shared clipboard with things copied from the phone has to be done manually....

Re: Android and iPhone users can now share files, starting with the Pixel 10

#539

Post by ajam1507 »

Lutzb wrote: post #383
kleiba wrote: post #363

It's amazing how seemingly trivial things turn out to be really hard to be in practice. Like: - sharing files between two phones - printing a page on that printer over there - getting the projector to display my screen (correctly, or at all) - getting my wife not to click on a link in a random email

I am still think that transfering state between devices is the next big thing(tm) waiting to happen. I am working on a file on my macbook, now I want to seamslessly move the whole application working on it to my nearby Windows machine and just continue. Seems impossible right now.

I suspect that just having a single device for everything is more likely.

Re: Android and iPhone users can now share files, starting with the Pixel 10

#540

Post by leo60228 »

dlcarrier wrote: post #145
flexagoon wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it can't be implemented without low level hardware access. But also, it seems like it's a part of GMS, not of the OS itself.

Low level hardware access for opening a file and a network port? Those are some of the first lessons in any programming tutorial. If they aren't available, what is the OS even doing? Also, for all intents and purposes, GMS is part of the Android OS, but Google had to branch it off, to keep it closed source.

AirDrop is based on AWDL, which is a proprietary protocol that requires low-level access to the Wi-Fi radio to implement. Apple told the EU that they have long-term plans to migrate from AWDL to the standard Wi-Fi Aware, but have not yet done so (and the EU did not require them to, only that they bring their Wi-Fi Aware support for third-party apps to feature parity).
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