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ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

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Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#531

Post by detaro »

victorbjorklund wrote: post #530
ohman876 wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If this gets pushed through, you will gradually lose control of your government A little bit off-topic but so called president of the EU is not elected, nor are the figures in so called EU commission :)

EU commission president isn’t directly elected, but neither is the US. President. Voter choose electors who then pick the US president. In EU: voters elect national parties that form groups in the Parliament, which then elects the Commission President.

some extra detail: comission president is a two-stage process: The European Council (representatives of the member states, either head of state or head of the government) proposes, the Parliament confirms or vetoes.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#532

Post by gtsop »

txrx0000 wrote: post #287

Dear citizens of the EU: If this gets pushed through, you will gradually lose control of your government much like how the people of the UK already lost control of theirs. What are you going to do when the government's interests inevitably drift out of alignment with yours? Start a political movement? You will have the police knocking on your door for criticizing the establishment. Start a revolution? You have no wea…

To which citizens are you talking to exactly? There are a few very rich citizens that always had control of the government and clrealy want this bill to pass.

On the other hand there is a majority of other citizens which don't have the economic means, who are the victims of this bill, they never haf control of the government and don't want this bill to pass.

Classless "citizens" don't exist. This is capitalism working as usual. Oh, and get in touch with reality please, there is no country where "citizens" don't have guns, it's just not all the citizens.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#533

Post by rattyJ2 »

ohman876 wrote: post #510
txrx0000 wrote: post #287

Dear citizens of the EU: If this gets pushed through, you will gradually lose control of your government much like how the people of the UK already lost control of theirs. What are you going to do when the government's interests inevitably drift out of alignment with yours? Start a political movement? You will have the police knocking on your door for criticizing the establishment. Start a revolution? You have no wea…

> If this gets pushed through, you will gradually lose control of your government A little bit off-topic but so called president of the EU is not elected, nor are the figures in so called EU commission :)

What is this Brexit talking point? The EU president is elected by the EU parliament/comission, whose members are directly elected by the people.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#534

Post by hsbauauvhabzb »

Juliate wrote: post #496
hsbauauvhabzb wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Both apple and android are teeing their infra up to support deleting apps they don’t like. Windows is moving towards e2e attestation, and Mac is basically already there. Once that’s all done, you just need to enforce hardware manufacturers boot only into ‘trusted’ operating systems. No more Linux. No more unsigned execution. No more encryption.

Won’t happen. There is way too much existing deployed systems depending on alternative open source systems, and a mn incentive to use them to keep using old hardware. And way too strong a strategic incentive not to depend on US tech alone.

What’s to stop attested open source systems, apart from pesky licence violations that I doubt would stop anyone powerful?

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#537

Post by willy_k »

bfg_9k wrote: post #449
TeMPOraL wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Start a revolution? You have no weapons. (...) You have neither the pen nor the sword. We still have Euros. As long as enough companies and rich folk are more on our side than theirs, the government still has some incentive to serve us. I know, I know - money and politics, wealth and power, they go together at the high end. But there is the oft forgotten long tail, the rich and powerful at the scale of a city, a ne…

> 2) Citizens here may be significantly less armed, but the same is true of government officials, and even law enforcement is significantly less armed. It kind of evens out, unless military gets involved, but at that point all bets are off - no different than in the US. I don't think that's a correct comparison. If shit ever did hit the proverbial fan, you can bet that any US military walking around an American city…

> If shit ever did hit the proverbial fan, you can bet that any US military walking around an American city would be constantly worried about getting a lead injection from any Tom, Dick or Harry who's got a firearm.

And then in many scenarios, that Tom, Dick, or Harry gets returned the favor, except with a tank round or worse. If the military remained organized, or at least large factions of it did, it would considerably outclass the general population in both intelligence and firepower / strike capabilities.

Soldiers would be on edge and vulnerable, sure, just like in the conflicts of the past few decades, but overall the military would retain a significant advantage.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#538

Post by silverliver »

I'll just repost what I posted in the last thread:

> There is no on-device scanning without compromising privacy. Scanning that can detect child abuse can also detect human rights activists, investigative journalists, and so on. I imagine this technology can be easily used by the government to identify journalists by scanning for material related to their investigation.

> On-device scanning is a fabrication that Apple foolishly introduced to the mainstream, and one that rabid politicians bit into and refuse to let go.

And I'll add this: Citizens lose of their right to privacy is the death of their democracy.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#539

Post by afiori »

tpm wrote: post #526
cirelli94 wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true. They are elected but not directly by the population but by the representative of each state.

They are nominated, not elected. This may vary state by state but in our country there is not election process for them.

In many EU countries neither head of state/government are elected then.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#540

Post by nedt »

ohman876 wrote: post #510
txrx0000 wrote: post #287

Dear citizens of the EU: If this gets pushed through, you will gradually lose control of your government much like how the people of the UK already lost control of theirs. What are you going to do when the government's interests inevitably drift out of alignment with yours? Start a political movement? You will have the police knocking on your door for criticizing the establishment. Start a revolution? You have no wea…

> If this gets pushed through, you will gradually lose control of your government A little bit off-topic but so called president of the EU is not elected, nor are the figures in so called EU commission :)

All of the presidents are elected. The bodies electing them are always part of a democratic process. Just because it's indirect doesn't make it less democratic. the president of the commission is even covered twice at it gets nominated by the council and the elected by the parliament. The parliament we voted for, the council are the head of states who might also not come from a direct democratic process.
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