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I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

simonhartcher.com

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Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#531

Post by seec »

moron4hire wrote: post #56
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How often have you needed to repair a MacBook? The enhanced repairability is basically insurance in case of a fault. Compared to a MacBook, or insurance for a MacBook, this insurance is overpriced. As for the environment, the power consumption + larger design with extra parts to make it repairable + how few people ever buy parts makes this a virtue signaling wash.

In the 15 years I've known her, my wife has needed to repair each of her 3 MacBooks at least once (One of them twice). In the same time, I've had to repair one Gigabyte laptop. The second Gigabyte that needed repair, I trashed and just stopped buying Gigabyte. That's the problem with Apple. They're build quality isn't that great, but you don't have an alternative.

Yeah, but that's the reality distortion field. It's true for many luxury brands where people just won't accept any criticism of the uber expensive products they bought because it makes them feel bad.

I have been buying Apple hardware since the early 2000s (the first thing I own was a 1.5 Gen iPod) and there is almost no product that didn't get an issue. Very often developing early in life because of bad design/engineering. I think the most reliables have been iPhones but that's only if you don't count annoying battery swap and other minor repairs that came for aging (like port replacement).

But they look good and make people feel good, so they get bought.

That's definitely the problem with Apple, if you could run macOS on any machine, they would lose market extremely fast.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#532

Post by AuthAuth »

pier25 wrote: post #219
AuthAuth wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The M Series doesn't get battery life rep due to it being arm its purely due to Apple optimizing for battery life and partly marketing it a ton. You can get x86 chips that can do 24HR playing a video which is 5 hours more than the M2/M3 laptops and keep in mind thats running bloated ass windows which probably uses 2-3x the system resources of macOS. I'm pretty sure the snapdragon chips out preform Apple silicon at al…

> I'm pretty sure the snapdragon chips out preform Apple silicon at almost every metric. No, not even close. https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Air-15-M4-review...

I have extremely low trust in the methodology of that website. Just seeing the multi threaded benchmarks alone is enough to know they've cooked most of those tests on the snapdragon Elite machines. The Snapdragon chips came out before the M4 to compete vs the M3 which they won in almost every metric except single core. Since the X2 is soon to be released they appear very likely do that again.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#533

Post by nottorp »

eigenspace wrote: post #482
nottorp wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why not just carry a large battery-bank And a mouse, because non apple laptops are hard to use with just the trackpad. And the huge power adapter for the "gaming" laptop. ... sadly, it means I'll have to stick to Apple hardware for longer. As much as I think Cook is an idiot who's trying to dumb their products down to the point they're not even usable for power users, let alone developers.

> And a mouse, because non apple laptops are hard to use with just the trackpad. Have you ever used a Framework's trackpad? It's very good. > And the huge power adapter for the "gaming" laptop. First of all, Framework laptops are not gaming laptops. Second of all, Framework ships smaller power adapters than Apple because they invested in Gallium Nitride chargers which are significantly more compact than other options…

> Have you ever used a Framework's trackpad? It's very good.

The hardware is the same in most quality laptops including Apple. It's something they do in the software that makes it far less annoying to go trackpad only on Mac OS.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#534

Post by akimbostrawman »

grahameb wrote: post #454
port11 wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't that mean that Intel Macs would have a much worse battery life than they did while suspended? Even suspended they did better than the same laptop running Linux.

Intel Macs aren't PCs... Apple did a lot of the wider platform beyond the CPU themselves.

They are still Personal Computer unless you work for marketing.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#535

Post by akimbostrawman »

charcircuit wrote: post #399
mcny wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does Framework operate at the same abstraction level as Apple? I thought because of scale, Apple can dictate terms from its suppliers to get everything custom. I would imagine Dell, Lenovo, and HP simply don't care enough and Framework and System 76 and the like don't have enough scale to get custom parts or custom code from vendors?

It's up to Framework what level they work at. If they want to make a competitive product rather than just throwing together what currently exists will dictate what they need to do. I would think it would be in Dell, Lenovo, and HP's interest to compete against Apple, but Framework shouldn't let others software that they should have bad suspend functionality.

"Just be worth billions of dollar bro"

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#536

Post by Throwaway123129 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #426
vaylian wrote: post #387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Framework doesn't produce it's own CPUs. It buys them directly from Intel. Producing your own CPU is really difficult, if you want it to be competitive with other state-of-the-art CPUs.

They don't need to make their own CPUs for that. Framework can write its own BIOS and ACPI drivers for Windows and Linux to have proper sleep support. But that's more R&D expenditure they probably can't afford. For example, for my home lab, I bought a used Intel 12th gen industrial PC from a specialized Taiwanese embedded systems company, whose BIOS allows very granular control of all sleep states plus individual pow…

Framework outsources their BIOS to Insyde who are a terrible OEM.

https://novacustom.com is a manufacturer that does do their own firmware and BIOS and gives you full control over all these settings

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#537

Post by commandersaki »

I’m a true believer of Framework’s mission. The technology is awesome.

I have contention with this; Framework technology is anything but awesome. Their laptop line is just as mediocre as most PC laptops. Mediocre build quality, mediocre display, mediocre battery, lots of annoying flaws, etc.

I didn't want to copy and paste my rant about the specific issues with Framework laptop, but here is one I posted awhile back: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42564335

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#538

Post by vander_elst »

adolph wrote: post #507
vander_elst wrote: post #348

Honest question, how is it possible that Macs are so much better in terms of hardware? Context: I use a MacBook at work and a Lenovo with Linux at home and now I might need to change my personal laptop, but I struggle to find (hardware) reasons why not to buy a MacBook, a MacBook Air is actually cheaper than another laptops with similar specs. There's still the ideology of repairability and openness which still plays…

> the ideology of repairability The best kind of repairability is not having to repair something.

I think that also macs suffer of the repairability disease, keyboards issues are relatively common and to change the keyboard they whole thing needs to be torn apart. Additionally, even the best component are also not immune to gravity and other physics laws, if something falls it will likely get damaged and it needs to be repaired.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#539

Post by chis »

mmcnl wrote: post #521
chis wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I spent a ton of time researching this. I wasn’t able to find any thinkpads that are relatively lightweight, have a hi res screen, and new CPUs for even close to the price of the framework 13 which can be purchased with a reasonable spec for less than $1100. It’s entirely possible that I missed one. But honestly that also makes me root more for framework - just sell me one high quality product instead of offering 40…

The ThinkPad E14 he mentioned is available with a 120Hz 2880x1800 display.

I think it wasn’t out 5 months ago when I looked. But that honestly looks like a great option now

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#540

Post by cschep »

coldpie wrote: post #472
cschep wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cmd-tab does this. what are we missing? cmd-tab, cmd-tab. terminal, browser. browser, terminal. has for years.

That switches between apps, not windows. Open two browser windows and two terminals. Try to switch between one terminal and one browser without bringing all the other windows to the fore. You can't do it. Windows (and most Unix WMs, I don't know where it actually originated) style alt-tab maintains a stack of recent windows. So you can hit alt-tab repeatedly to swap between the two most recent, or hit alt-tab-tab-tab…

ahh sorry I didn't understand. I'm so used to cmt-tab, cmd-` but I'm not at all claiming that's "most" efficient. makes sense why people would want that. I wish Apple would "just" add a fucking checkbox somewhere for that. Seems like a thing people really want.
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