Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza • Hacker News Board

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#531

Post by fatbird » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 4:18 AM UTC

sporkxrocket wrote: post #435

UmGuys wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question, will you abstain from voting? There are only 2 parties and they both fund Israel. One maybe slightly less.

Yes, I will. I will not vote for anyone who supports Israel. My vote is here for the taking, I just need to see an anti-Zionist candidate.

Then you're privileging your own sense of moral purity over the welfare of the Palestinians. The situation is manifestly worse for them now, as was predictable. I hope the cleanliness of your hands makes that bearable.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#532

Post by underlipton » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 4:18 AM UTC

throwawaygmbno wrote: post #491

scarecrowbob wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't the Democrats change their positions so that they align with and accommodate popular positions and win elections. I don't think most of the (rather large block) of folks I know who abstained wanted a fully solved problem, they wanted the US to stop funding Israel and that is a position that the Democratic party could have taken if they had chosen to do so.

Black people have known for decades, you vote for the people that don't actively hate you. Sitting out of the process does absolutely nothing, whether its a protest vote, pretending that politics don't affect you, or just giving up completely. The people who get elected in those situations always 100% ignore you. When people are in office that are at least willing to listen, you then make a lot of noise and put on pr…

On the contrary, Democrats win when black voters turn out and lose when they don't. Because Republicans often hold such nakedly racist and repugnant views that voting for them is a complete non-starter, the only practical choice available to most black voters is not who to vote for, but whether to vote.

Black citizens make the most progress by strategies built around embarrassing the powers that be. Those powers generally capitulate (as much as they ever were going to) after a period of tantrum-throwing, which is where we are now. Such politicians hate having to vote against the donor class's wishes, but they'll do it to get reelected (or they'll be primaried by candidates who will). Or, they'll lose. Those are the choices, which Kamala Harris unfortunately learned the hard way.

One other thing black folk have known for decades: nobody you can put into the White House or the legislature will be able to stop half the country from thinking of you as a n!gger. You don't vote based on that because Carter and Clinton and especially Obama and Biden have shown us that election-based social progression is a pipedream.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#533

Post by breppp » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 4:22 AM UTC

holmesworcester wrote: post #265

breppp wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Antisemitism is back, with its nasty conspiracy theories, jews as baby killers, controlling the world, involved in any news item. Good thing Zionism was invented exactly to counter that.

Everyone here is talking about Israel, even the person with the wild comment about Epstein and Kirk. It is common for a minority of people to say similarly wild things about the US, Russia, China, and so on.

No, it is uncommon to attribute to Russia the set of racist stereotypes that relate to Jews.

For example, I never saw an opinion that thinks that Russia control the media or world finance, while the above is attributed to jews since before nazis.

In the above example, it is very common for people to have a paranoid obsession with looking for Jews/Israel as an explanation for any news, and that is also a centuries old pastime

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#534

Post by isr » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 4:22 AM UTC

sfink wrote: post #190

jcranmer wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's definitely a generational gap going in the US. Support for Israel is not popular among the younger generation in the US, and there's a good deal of voters in their 20s and 30s for whom support for Israel a red line in candidates. But older generations tend to be staunchly in favor of Israel, and too much of the gerontocratic political class thinks that pro-Israel uber alles is the key to winning votes. It is…

I wouldn't label this as "support for Israel"/"against Israel". One can support Israel without supporting Israel's current approach. Many within Israel are not happy with Netanyahu's methods, and presumably they are not against Israel. I understand that that's the current shorthand, but it seems inaccurate and unnecessarily polarizing to me.

There's no way of supporting Israel without supporting this current genocide. Literally no way. Because this current genocide is the logical outcome of what Israel is. And was explained as such, in detail, by David Ben Gurion and Golda Mier. Decades ago.

Albert Einstein added his name to a famous letter to the NY Times in the late 40's, in which EXACTLY THIS was explained, in plain & uncompromising language, in the very first paragraph. For Israel to exist, it would have to be just like the Nazis. That's LITERALLY what that letter said.

The splitting of a non-existing hair argument that you're trying to do is just to avoid admitting that you've been wrong the entire time, and enough people warned (or boasted) about it from the very beginning that you really don't have an excuse for being this wrong.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#535

Post by yieldcrv » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 4:28 AM UTC

jmyeet wrote: post #523

yieldcrv wrote: post #14

Useless except if the following done on the US side: Remove exception to AIPAC political status Reevaluate AIPAC non profit status entirely Replicate EO 14046 for Israel which adds the entire ruling party and head of state and spouses and military and affiliated business to the OFAC list all of this is easy and doesn’t require Congress but nobody is close to considering those actions with regard to Israel. Notably, o…

I fully understand the feelings of helplessness and hopelessness with this situation. Lots of people like to imagine what they'd do in certain situations, historical or otherwise. We no longer need to imagine what most people would do in the HOlocaust. We now know: nothing. In WW2, most people could reasonably claim ignorance. Even a lot of Germans could claim ignorance. Now we have livestreamed 4K 60fps evidence tha…

I don't feel hopeless by pointing out that the UN report is a small piece of a puzzle, despite the high level of energy used to collectively create it.

It's easier to talk about these things and seeing consensus shift on consensus driven forums like this. My prior observations about that state's policies and supporting culture have been similar, but seen as extreme and "cancellable" at one point. Espousing my observations would have been conflated with ideas of physical harm to Jewish and Israelis, which I don't harbor. My ideas are much more similar to Jewish Israeli residents that protest their own government within Israel. And it's been nice to see many stateside Jewish people distance themselves, and now even second guess Zionism, which Jewish community leaders initially denounced 120 years ago by foreseeing these specific issues and its inherent extremism.

When it comes to my country's involvement, it's a complete aberration in US foreign policy. The reasons require a contorting ourselves for no real practical reason that isn’t already fulfilled by other countries in the Middle East, it’s just money moved from one account to the account of our politicians and appointed representatives.

So I am happy to see piece by piece, people re-evaluating the state narrative on that country. The politicians with discretion on all the levers are unfortunately a far cry away from changing anything.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#536

Post by underlipton » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 4:30 AM UTC

Cyph0n wrote: post #456

scarecrowbob wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couldn't the Democrats change their positions so that they align with and accommodate popular positions and win elections. I don't think most of the (rather large block) of folks I know who abstained wanted a fully solved problem, they wanted the US to stop funding Israel and that is a position that the Democratic party could have taken if they had chosen to do so.

This is what people don’t understand, because it isn’t their single issue. If I beg you to reconsider on a very serious issue that is in your power to change stance on, and you not only ignore me but laugh in my face, then why exactly do you still get my vote? Why exactly should I reward you for completely ignoring my protests? Make sure to swap Gaza for your single issue - maybe LGBT rights, or abortion, or gun righ…

It's important to also point out that not enabling genocide is one of the most important issues single-issue voters can swing their vote around. That's because genocides both

1) threaten the international rules-based order, shattering the expectation of adherence to any number of human rights-centered protocols and representing crisis that can snowball into larger conflicts,

and 2) are often facilitated in part by police actions (civilian detainment, censorship, killings dressed up in lawful rules for the use of force, etc.), which threatens a general spillover of military action into the civilian/domestic status quo.

In other words, tolerance of genocide leads to a general shift towards war and despotism, even for people who aren't in the group targeted for genocide. Tolerance of evil builds the scaffolding for further subjugation.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#537

Post by breppp » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 4:31 AM UTC

DaveExeter wrote: post #389

breppp wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are aware that Shulamit Alloni was on the extreme left and was criticizing this supposed misuse of Antisemitism, this is not some playbook The american equivalent would be to quote Bernie Sanders saying "America is fascist" and then saying, see? therefore the USA system of government is fascism, even Congress agrees!

Not sure how that's the equivalent. Lets see if there is a pattern. Roger Waters criticizes Israel, Roger Waters is an antisemite. Tucker Carlson criticizes Israel, Tucker Carlson is an antisemite. Edward Said criticizes Israel, Edward Said is an antisemite. Even "legends" get called antisemites! [1] Hannah Einbinder criticizes Israel, Hannah Einbinder is an antisemite? Hmmm. According to Jerry Seinfeld, anyone who s…

You have simply given a false example.

Regarding antisemitism, it is unfortunately a two millennium old racist phenomenon, which shows itself in an obsession many persons had with Jews and their "influence on world politics". Behaviors include use of ritual scapegoating, where double standards are applied to the jews and then blame is shifted to them, culminating in ritual violence.

It's hard to delete 2000 years of western culture, so what you are seeing is mostly a rehash of this

This predated Israel by much and can be seen online for example by the unhealthy obsession with this conflict or even paranoid delusions considering Israel ("Israel killed Charlie Kirk cause I saw Nethanyahu respond to the murder" as can be seen in this thread)

In the above mentioned UN human right council you can see it in the fact 40% of decisions are about Israel while countries like Iran chair the committee. Or the fact there is a permanent clause (Article 7) meant to condemn Israel permanently, the only such country that had such a clause

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#538

Post by BrawnyBadger53 » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 4:31 AM UTC

SilverElfin wrote: post #476

therobots927 wrote: post #60

I for one will be holding my representatives responsible who continue to vote for the US to enable a genocide. The videos coming out of Gaza have turned me and many others into single issue voters.

[flagged]

We don't need to meander about definitions here, it's defined in the report. It is also described how they reached their conclusions.

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#539

Post by mslm » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 4:32 AM UTC

GoatInGrey wrote: post #315

FridayoLeary wrote: post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Consider that the videos of Oct 7 had a similar effect on lots of decent people. The un is the same now as it was before October 7. In gueterres words "it didn't happen in a vacuum". The complete loss of credibility for the un also didn't happen in a vacuum. Even if their report is true it will fall on deaf ears thanks in no small part to their lack of any sort of objectivity when it comes to Israel.

This was me. I was browsing Hamas' Telegram account as they released the FPV videos that day. The two most disturbing scenes were the pantless body of a teenaged girl being burned amidst chanting of "Allahu Akbar", and militants scouring buildings for any person or pet they could kill and doing just that whenever they found someone. I learned a very uncomfortable—though valuable—lesson about humans that day.

Then you must surely be learning something new about humans every day since?

Re: Top UN legal investigators conclude Israel is guilty of genocide in Gaza

#540

Post by mslm » Wed, Sep 17, 2025, 4:34 AM UTC

gerash wrote: post #479

[flagged]

A one state solution means Palestinians can vote out the Zionists from power. They know that, so they'd rather prevent it while simultaneously genociding their population.