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Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

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Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#531

Post by WarOnPrivacy »

cma wrote: post #404
WarOnPrivacy wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ObamaCare made things much better for those who could not get healthcare. For some people who could not get healthcare. I haven't had usable health insurance since before the AMA because it can exceed my total earnings. > For most, High Deductible plans becoming the norm left people in much worse state Which tees up my larger point (thank you). For years 3 thru 10+ of the ACA: News orgs (eg KaiserHN): 'Insured are…

At $12K a year you were at the poverty line, silver cost sharing reduction and you have something like $1K-1.5K max copays and deductibles. You might have not known about it and tried to buy a bronze plan instead, but the silver cost sharing reduction removes almost all of the deductible and the premium credits at the low end bring the premiums to near zero. Most of Obamacare brings max medical expenses to about 10%…

> You might have not known about it and tried to buy a bronze plan instead,

I always looked at every plan there was. Most of the work was getting thru the qualifications. After all that, every plan got examined multiple times.

> Most of Obamacare brings max medical expenses to about 10% of income for a single person

During the 2010s my wife and each brought in ~$10k/yr. That was in line with most folks we knew, in the $10k-$35k range. A typical month made 80% of minimal bills.

In searching for policies in the $12/yr range there might have been 'catastrophic' policies that were just most of my income instead of all of it.

I want thru the qualification 2x more for $24k and $32k. The latter being the cheapest polices I saw all that day. I took a few screenshots back then. I'm searching my archives and if I find them I'll post back.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#532

Post by WalterBright »

grafmax wrote: post #522
WalterBright wrote: post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Becoming an owner by founding a company is the way to reach the top tier. Jobs, Gates, Bezos, Musk, etc. BTW, I know a person who worked as a fruit picker as a young man, he's now a multimillionaire. And a woman who grew up in a mobile home who is now worth 9 figures. America is a great country. P.S. my first business was selling greeting cards door to door.

Unfortunately our society’s structure is such that only a small number of people can ever be wealthy. They do this by belonging to the ownership class. There is not enough room there for everyone, because owners make money simply through owning, because others do the work for them, while the owners pay themselves with the profits these workers generate for them.

> Unfortunately our society’s structure is such that only a small number of people can ever be wealthy.

History says otherwise. The mass immigration to the US in the 1800s was all poor people arriving with nothing but a suitcase. They moved up into the middle class and beyond en masse.

Middle class people live better than medieval kings.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#533

Post by bestouff »

ipython wrote: post #238
inerte wrote: post #200

A few months ago I had a persistent irritation on my right eye, as if some dust was stuck there. Worried about it, I went to Urgent care and got billed $3400 (dollars) for antibiotics, WHICH WERE WRONG, an actual ophthalmologist said I had it scratched and just had to apply some drops. $250 for the ophthalmologist and about $50 for the drops. This week I am in Brazil for vacation, and my mother-in-law had a lot of ba…

I would demand an itemized bill from that urgent care and play hard ball with that provider. That's absurd, even by US standards. I've had ER visits that total less than that. My son had a cast that fell off while on travel in Florida, and we stopped by an ER (only place that was open and could fit a new cast). Total cost out the door _at the ER_ was less than $500, which while expensive, is nowhere near what you're…

Your country is crazy. I wouldn't want to end jobless there, that's a potential death call.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#534

Post by selimthegrim »

t1234s wrote: post #110
hombre_fatal wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Vehicles in general. In Houston, I share a car with my girlfriend since I work from home. But some days I don't feel very independent when I want to run an errand while she's at work. I'll look up the price of a used Corolla and think about all the additional expenses, and I'm immediately disabused of the idea. Instead, I decided to book some motorcycle lessons so I can use a $3000 moto. But then I need to pay for li…

In Florida there are "Lottery Winner" style billboards everywhere for auto accident lawyers and other ambulance chasers. This is what helps keep insurance premiums high for everyone and unless you are flat-broke. Good luck gambling not having enough insurance.

Louisiana too.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#535

Post by Epa095 »

dang wrote: post #513
Epa095 wrote: post #441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Please edit out swipes and name-calling from your posts to HN, as the site guidelines request: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . I realize you didn't start it, but we need commenters here to follow the rules regardless of what others are doing. (Otherwise we end up in a downward spiral: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... ) Edit: You did it elsewhere in this thread too - h…

It's hard when people call me confused :-/ But I would edit it away if I could! But it seems like I can't edit this post anymore, should I be able to?

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#536

Post by TFYS »

WalterBright wrote: post #532
grafmax wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately our society’s structure is such that only a small number of people can ever be wealthy. They do this by belonging to the ownership class. There is not enough room there for everyone, because owners make money simply through owning, because others do the work for them, while the owners pay themselves with the profits these workers generate for them.

> Unfortunately our society’s structure is such that only a small number of people can ever be wealthy. History says otherwise. The mass immigration to the US in the 1800s was all poor people arriving with nothing but a suitcase. They moved up into the middle class and beyond en masse. Middle class people live better than medieval kings.

That's not the definition of wealthy. Wealthy is a relative term. It's meaningless to say that a lower middle class person today is wealthy just because people 500 years ago could only dream of the things they have. If other people in the society they currently live in have a million times more, they are not wealthy.

I'm sure you understand how capitalism works. If you do, you should understand that not everyone can be an owner, someone has to do the actual work.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#537

Post by bluecalm »

Epa095 wrote: post #535
dang wrote: post #513

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please edit out swipes and name-calling from your posts to HN, as the site guidelines request: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . I realize you didn't start it, but we need commenters here to follow the rules regardless of what others are doing. (Otherwise we end up in a downward spiral: https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... ) Edit: You did it elsewhere in this thread too - h…

It's hard when people call me confused :-/ But I would edit it away if I could! But it seems like I can't edit this post anymore, should I be able to?

[flagged]

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#538

Post by self_awareness »

piva00 wrote: post #478
self_awareness wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or we do communism, the right way this time. Last time I've seen communism being implemented the right way was the CHOP/CHAZ in Seattle. It ended up with some actual warlord taking a gun and killing some people. In the middle of the city. Also, who do you think would pay for the UBI. It's not like UBI is some solution that was even implemented anywhere.

Don't jump directly into the red scare through a slippery slope fallacy, it's just intellectually dishonest while being the most boring thought-terminating cliché on this type of discussion. Wanting to live in a better and more just system, even if we can most realistically just work towards an improved version of capitalism, is probably something most of us can agree upon. I don't think anyone sane is against people…

We probably can agree on lots of things, about inefficiencies in current system and the like, but some elementary things between us are too far apart.

The ideas you identify as solutions, for me are the problems.

You can promote artificial redistribution all you want, but I will want to stop it however I can. If a global redistribution system would be implemented, then all your wealth would go to Africa and Russia, and you will be left with nothing. I'm sure this is not what you want, which in my POV makes you a hipocryte. If you don't agree that your wealth should go to Africa or Russia then we're in the area of choosing who is worthy of getting money and who isn't. And this is not at all different from a rich guy deciding where to put money to. So wealth redistribution from my POV just means that a poor guy wants to be in charge of the money now. But after he'll be in charge, it only means that he'll be the new rich guy. Nothing changes at all.

Pro-redistribution people are always talking about cash flowing from someone else to them. It's always the same story. And this is against what I stand for with all my determination, because I don't like thievery. Especially legal thievery.

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#539

Post by ponector »

ruralfam wrote: post #440
inerte wrote: post #200

A few months ago I had a persistent irritation on my right eye, as if some dust was stuck there. Worried about it, I went to Urgent care and got billed $3400 (dollars) for antibiotics, WHICH WERE WRONG, an actual ophthalmologist said I had it scratched and just had to apply some drops. $250 for the ophthalmologist and about $50 for the drops. This week I am in Brazil for vacation, and my mother-in-law had a lot of ba…

Just got my bill for a recent 20 minute doctor visit (with one of the best HC insurance coverages in my state: $1,600 cost, $1,400 adjustment, $200 out-of-pocket given my $3,000 OOP limit was not reacehd). Absurd. The USA will likely never get to an efficient govt. single pay system (unlike every other industrialized company). Given this, the option I hope for is that the FedGov passes a law that requires all Master…

>> The USA will likely never get to an efficient govt. single pay system (unlike every other industrialized company).

Not really efficient.

Due to low pay there is a huge shortage of medical workers.

Also for non life treating conditions there are waiting lists for the next few years.

Had a light knee injury during football game? Your surgery is scheduled for 2027. Real story of my friend from Poland.

And you pay 9% of your income for this "care".

Re: Food, housing, & health care costs are a source of major stress for many people

#540

Post by grafmax »

WalterBright wrote: post #532
grafmax wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately our society’s structure is such that only a small number of people can ever be wealthy. They do this by belonging to the ownership class. There is not enough room there for everyone, because owners make money simply through owning, because others do the work for them, while the owners pay themselves with the profits these workers generate for them.

> Unfortunately our society’s structure is such that only a small number of people can ever be wealthy. History says otherwise. The mass immigration to the US in the 1800s was all poor people arriving with nothing but a suitcase. They moved up into the middle class and beyond en masse. Middle class people live better than medieval kings.

Living standards have risen due to productivity gains being distributed across society. Factors such as wise policy and labor unions contributed to this effect. These factors are largely absent today. Productivity gains have flowed mostly to the ownership class since the mid 1970s (this is the pay-productivity gap). As the article notes, 50% of people identify groceries as a major cause of stress, which doesn’t sound like a medieval king. Society has the capacity to make life better for everyone. It requires collective action to redistribute wealth from the ownership class across society however.

Even raising living standards for the poor through redistribution wouldn’t solve all our problems. Concentration of wealth is itself a net negative because it is concentration of power. Greater wealth concentration makes society more undemocratic, even if the bottom 50% were to become richer. Today billionaires have so much money that a group of them has gotten together to fund the abandonment of democracy in the US. They are largely succeeding. We are collapsing into “illiberal democracy” - a phenomenon that has been spreading across the globe in recent years. Our greatest problems, like climate change, worsen as wealthy interests prop up policies of denial rather than effective solutions.

A medieval king had political control. If society was heading in a direction that was going to harm them, they could do something about it. But members of the modern day middle class have virtually no political control. That is concentrated in the hands of the few and harms us all.

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