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Nvidia won, we all lost

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Re: Nvidia won, we all lost

#531

Post by AngryData »

darkoob12 wrote: post #271
__turbobrew__ wrote: post #49

> With over 90% of the PC market running on NVIDIA tech, they’re the clear winner of the GPU race. The losers are every single one of us. I have been rocking AMD GPU ever since the drivers were upstreamed into the linux kernel. No regrets. I have also realized that there is a lot out there in the world besides video games, and getting all in a huff about it isn’t worth my time or energy. But consumer gotta consoooooo…

I am not a gamer and don't why AMD GPUs aren't good enough. It's weird since both Xbox and PlayStation are using AMD GPUs. I guess there games that you can only play on PC with Nvidia graphics. That begs the question why someone create a game and ignore large console market.

I am a gamer, and I don't understand why everyone flocks to Nvidia either unless they are buying the newest flagship card. Maybe just because "the best card" is from Nvidia so many assume Nvidia must be the best for everyone? For multiple generations ive gotten better card for my dollar at any "mid-tier" gaming level with AMD, and have had zero complaints.

Re: Nvidia won, we all lost

#532

Post by AngryData »

piperswe wrote: post #193
cherioo wrote: post #9

High end GPU has over the last 5 years slowly turning from an enthusiast product into a luxury product. 5 or maybe 10 years ago, high-end GPU are needed to run games at reasonably eye candy setting. In 2025, $500 mid-range GPUs are more than enough. Folks all over can barely tell between High and Ultra settings, DLSS vs FSR, or DLSS FG and Lossless Scaling. There's just no point to compete at $500 price point any mor…

10 years ago, $650 would buy you a top-of-the-line gaming GPU (GeForce GTX 980 Ti). Nowadays, $650 might get you a mid-range RX 9070 XT if you miraculously find one near MSRP.

I don't know how you can consider a 9070 XT a midrange card, it is AMD's second best card in benchmarks and only came out 5 months ago.

Re: Nvidia won, we all lost

#533

Post by int_19h »

liendolucas wrote: post #352

I haven't read the whole article but a few things to remark: * The prices for Nvidia GPUs are insane. For that money you can have an extremely good PC with a good non Nvidia GPU. * The physical GPU sizes are massive, even letting the card rest on a horizontal motherboard looks like scary. * Nvidia has still issues with melting cables? I've heard about those some years ago and thought it was a solved problem. * Propri…

> Proprietary frameworks like CUDA and others are going to fall at some point, is just a matter of time.

CUDA outlived several attempts to offer an open alternative by now, starting with OpenCL.

It's really ironic for a hardware company that its moat, such as it is, is largely about software. And it's not even that software around CUDA is that great. But for some reason AMD is seemingly incapable of hitting even that low bar, even though they had literally decades to catch up.

Intel, on the other hand, is seriously lagging behind on the hardware end.

Re: Nvidia won, we all lost

#534

Post by int_19h »

alganet wrote: post #54
gizajob wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have a timeframe for the pop? I need some excitement.

More a sequence of potential events than a timeframe. High-end GPUs are already useless for gaming (a low-end GPU is enough), their traditional source of demand. They're floating on artificial demand for a while now. There are two markets that currently could use them: LLMs and Augmented Reality. Both of these are currently useless, and getting more useless by the day. CPUs are just piggybacking on all of this. So, l…

> High-end GPUs are already useless for gaming (a low-end GPU is enough), their traditional source of demand. They're floating on artificial demand for a while now.

This is not the case if you want things like ray tracing or 4K.

Re: Nvidia won, we all lost

#535

Post by xp84 »

davidee wrote: post #79
snitty wrote: post #51

NVIDIA is, and will be for at least the next year or two, supply constrained. They only have so much capacity at TSMC for all the chips, and the lion's share of that is going to be going enterprise chips, which sell for an order of magnitude more than the consumer chips. It's hard to get too offended by them shirking the consumer marker right now when they're printing money with their enterprise business.

Not personally offended, but when a company makes a big stink around several gross exaggerations (performance, price, availability) it's not hard to understand why folks are kicking up their own stink. Nvidia could have said "we're prioritizing enterprise" but instead they put on a big horse and pony show about their consumer GPUs. I really like the Gamer's Nexus paper launch shirt. ;)

My (uninformed) perception is that their “gaming” marketing department does their best to hype their gaming stuff that they have, while their senior leadership is in charge of whether they ship reasonable quantities of it, and, as an NVDA investor, they’re clearly making the right choices there. It sucks for gamers that the same silicon is useful for both gaming and AI, but that’s the situation.

Re: Nvidia won, we all lost

#536

Post by int_19h »

kbolino wrote: post #196
MindSpunk wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's just called super sampling. Render at 4k+ and down sample to your target display. It's as expensive as it sounds.

No, I mean high pixel densities all the way to the display. SSAA is an even older technique than MSAA but the results are not visually the same as just having a really high-DPI screen with no AA.

Up to a point. I would argue that 8K downsampled to 4K is practically indistinguishable from native 8K.

Re: Nvidia won, we all lost

#537

Post by tom_m »

Know what really kicks me in the nuts? Stupid kid me didn't buy Nvidia when I told my father to back in like 2002 for $16 or something. He did. And holds it until this day. Fortunately that means taking care of him is easier haha, but dang I should have gotten some too.

Re: Nvidia won, we all lost

#538

Post by nobodyandproud »

__turbobrew__ wrote: post #49

> With over 90% of the PC market running on NVIDIA tech, they’re the clear winner of the GPU race. The losers are every single one of us. I have been rocking AMD GPU ever since the drivers were upstreamed into the linux kernel. No regrets. I have also realized that there is a lot out there in the world besides video games, and getting all in a huff about it isn’t worth my time or energy. But consumer gotta consoooooo…

I couldn’t be more pleased with my 7900xt 20gb.

Running most inference models (quantized of course) via Vulkan. Playing games using Wine and/or Steam+Proton on Linux.

Sweet spot in price.

Re: Nvidia won, we all lost

#539

Post by kbolino »

Tijdreiziger wrote: post #527
kbolino wrote: post #510

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, this seems to be based entirely on speculation. It could very well be accurate but there's no statements I can find from either nVidia or EVGA corroborating it. Since it's done by the manufacturer themselves, it's more like gouging rather than scalping. But more to the point, there's still a trail of blame going back to nVidia here. If EVGA could buy the cores at an inflated price, then nVidia should have raised…

NVIDIA doesn’t make a lot of finished cards for the same reason Intel doesn’t make a lot of motherboards, presumably.

Maybe, but that's not a great analogy. The standardized, user-accessible sockets mean many different CPUs can be paired with many different motherboards. There's also a wide variety of sizes and features in motherboards, plus they have buses for connecting various kinds of peripherals. GPUs have none of this flexibility or extensibility.

Re: Nvidia won, we all lost

#540

Post by michaelmrose »

homebrewer wrote: post #384
senko wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Had major problems with xinerama, suspend/resume, vsync, probably a bunch of other stuff. That said, I've been avoiding AMD in general for so long the ecosystem might have really improved in the meantime, as there was no incentive for me to try and switch. Recently I've been dabbling in AI where AMD GPUs (well, sw ecosystem, really) are lagging behind. Just wasn't worth the hassle. NVidia hw, once I set it up (which…

> I've been avoiding AMD in general I have no opinion on GPUs (I don't play anything released later than about 2008), but Intel CPUs have had more problems over the last five years than AMD, including disabling the already limited support for AVX-512 after release and simply burning themselves to the ground to get an easy win in initial benchmarks. I fear your perception of their products is seriously out of date.

I believe this is correct. Linux drivers and support duration were garbage at least 2003-2015. AMD fanboys feveretly expressed opinions notwithstanding. Especially so when AMD started the process of open sourcing their drivers even though many chips already existing didn't qualify for the new upcoming open source drivers. 2015-2018 drivers were acceptable but performance was poorer than Nvidia and wayland support wasn't a notable for most parties.

Now wayland support is an important factor and AMD is a perfectly acceptable and indeed economical choice.

Basically 15 years inertia is hard to counter.

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