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FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

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Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#531

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Their exposure will still be much less than someone who gives them free reign and lets them sit in the livingroom staring at a phone. They won't be staring at the phone distracted while they're hanging out with the family.

Hiding things from parents is a far bigger problem than staring at a phone in a living room.

No it’s not. Everyone hid things from their parents. I hid soooo much from my parents. It’s fine. It’s normal. It’s far more important to have limited exposure to modern smart phones.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#532
post #188

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This is a one-time effect, though. Or at least, an effect that only changes periodically (and should reverse) when interest rates change. 30-year mortgages have been standard in the US for most of my life, and houses have gotten a lot more expensive during that time.

Mortgage loans have been getting cheaper due to automation and the commoditization of loans / increase in surplus capital. That then pushes up home prices over time relative to inflation.

Home prices have doubled in most areas since 2009 (and worse in many areas.) when people complain about prices in 2025, this is what they’re talking about. This is not driven by the novel existence of 30-year mortgages and interest rates are at a near-term high.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#533
post #528
post #353

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> I still get dinged for not having "enough" credit history Maybe the data is wrong? I took out a few loans over the years with strange comments from the lenders like "You don't have much credit history" , but since it didn't impact anything I didn't think much of it. Somewhere down the line a lender was like "I don't think this is you" . Turns out that it wasn't.

What do you mean? Your credit report was someone else’s credit history?

As I understood it, it was a bit stranger than that. There was some minimal activity on the report that was actually me (a phone account, if I remember right), but my credit cards and whatnot didn't show up. But also some activity did that wasn't mine. I was somehow partially combined with another credit history, or something like that. I am not well versed in the technical details to truly understand what the problem was. I had to fill out some form to get it corrected and haven't thought about it since.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#534
post #326

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That's not true. Wages have generally outpaced inflation as long as we've measured inflation properly. Up until the early 1970s this was very palpable, since the early 1970s the delta has been much lower, wage increases have been very slightly above inflation. Why does it feel different? 1: the amount of stuff we buy has increased a lot . Anybody who owns what would be considered solidly middle class in the early 197…

Average American household budgets are dominated by housing, transportation and taxes. Maybe some of that problem is about spending too much money, but it cannot be denied that housing are unaffordable and that transportation is inefficient and is a mess.

You left out health care and education.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#535

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I don't understand people. If you need to use an installment plan why the hell are you using DoorDash which is a luxury ripoff? I can afford it but I don't use it because it's obscene. I'm tempted to say that some people are poor because they're imbeciles with poor financial sense.

>using DoorDash ... is a luxury ripoff I live in a working-class neighborhood and it blows my mind how often DoorDash visits my neighbors (particularly considering there are dozens of restaurants within one mile). The only time I encourage delivery service is when we're too intoxicated to drive.

I stayed with distant family for a bit around COVID when everyone was WFH. Him and his wife must have gotten 3-5 DoorDash deliveries a day pretty reliably, I was blown away. Each ordering their own thing from different restaurants. Random “I want a donut from 711 at 1am” where I’m sure fees/tip were multiples of the actual food cost. Sometimes the different drivers would arrive at the same time and we’d have a little jam up on the porch.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and mostly irrational I'd say it is quite rational. Real estate represents value, and value should be earning at all times. Owning it free and clear does not change that one iota. Rents are based on the value of the property, not the mortgage on it.

False, rents are based on what the market will bear. The value of the property is stickier than rents. Plus one can be "losing money" on cashflow but earning money in equity, so one can rent for less than the mortgage while the value of the asset is rising even faster than the monthly loss. Of course this only happens based on speculation and having free cash to "lose" monthly.

> rents are based on what the market will bear

And that is the value of the property. I.e. the value of property is what income it will generate.

When those two values diverge, then "arbitrage" steps in which converges them again.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#537
post #377

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Yes, but why would anyone want to live on what is effectively a farm, but without the benefit of separation from other people or land (read: income) that a farm offers? That completely defies the whole reason for the density. I'm not saying it doesn't exist, I question why people are doing it.

> The whole reason for accepting being squeezed in tightly with other people That's the thing, a lot of Americans really don't like this idea of being squeezed in tightly. People really don't like having a shared wall. And it's not that people like these tightly squeezed lot lines, they'd prefer 1 acre lots. These tiny lots are all they can afford while still being somewhat acceptable to them about commutes. Which Am…

> That's the thing, a lot of Americans really don't like this idea of being squeezed in tightly.

I think it's a large and growing cultural divide.

There is a growing class of predominantly progressive people who look to walkability scores and the variety of ethnic restaurants and music venues to evaluate the desirability of a place to live. And an older more conservative cohort who value what you describe.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#538
post #373

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You've been mislead by an overloaded term. Urban in an academic context is a much lower bar than urban in a "any reasonably layman's meaning of the word" context. Pretty much any time you hear "city" or "urban" it's either a direct or indirect reference to US census data (or follow on research by other academics that uses their definitions) which play fast and loose with the word urban in a way that results in the po…

> Urban in an academic context is a much lower bar than urban I said city , not urban, trying to portray a high density, well populated area. I fully recognize that the US considers a community as small as 2,000 people to be urban. And, similarly, you need as few as 1,000 people in an area in my country to fall into what is considered urban. This is all well known and understood. That said, the 3,000 people strong to…

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Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#539
post #474
post #466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, but why would anyone want to live on what is effectively a farm, but without the benefit of separation from other people or land (read: income) that a farm offers? They don't want complete separation from other people. They want conveniences of the city/metropolis (access to jobs, entertainment, and education) while having a lot of space around their home for recreation & privacy. They don't want farm work (re…

> They want conveniences of the city/metropolis (access to jobs, entertainment, and education) But not without having to travel. And once travel is in the picture, you can be to the same places just as fast from a farm as you can from another point in the city. It might be hard to appreciate if you have never lived on a farm, but once you do you'll realize that the highway is unbelievably efficient. Your point only h…

> But not without having to travel. And once travel is in the picture, you can be to the same places just as fast from a farm as you can from another point in the city.

Your phrase "having to travel" is painting with a very broad brush.

There are naturally huge variations in transit time depending on where you live in a metropolis, where you are going, and how you are getting there.

I can walk 15 minutes to a coffee shop and grocery store, drive 20 minutes to a Walmart, and take a train 35 minutes to the office.

All are very convenient and the latter two require transportation.

> Where do you get the idea that farm work is a necessary condition to realize an income from farm land? Most farmers (in the legal sense) don't farm their own land, they have other farmers work it through sharecropping/rental agreements.

Even if you aren't doing the hard labor, you have to want to manage that kind of business. Most people evidently prefer not to, and instead like urban jobs. The last 150 years of urbanization isn't a fluke.

Re: FICO to incorporate buy-now-pay-later loans into credit scores

#540
post #521

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Like was said in other comments, in practice, the time to get to a point in the city is the same if you start in the city, or if you start outside of the city This is objectively, radically untrue. It takes my wife 10-15 minutes to get to that same office where it takes the people living in Forney an hour to get in. She'll spend 20 minutes of her day commuting, they'll spend two hours . I used to ride my bicycle to…

> More available total jobs or more available comparable jobs? More actual opportunity, perhaps? Cities have lots of available jobs (assuming they aren't fake; that is a thing, apparently), and lots of people without jobs, but they never seem to align such that the people without jobs ever fill the open jobs. It's quite curious. As a result, people are much more likely to be without work in cities, as seen in the dat…

> Im sure you can look it up just as easily as I.

Not any datasets that actually agree with your assertions. Most datasets showcase the hollowing out of rural job opportunities as globalization and automation has massively cut back on manufacturing job opportunities, automation has reduced farm jobs, rural depopulation leads to education closures, etc. So if you have a lot of data otherwise please do share.

And once again it completely goes against everything I've personally seen in nearly a dozen metro areas. I've got family who live in absolutely rural areas and operate farms in the Midwest. I've lived in a few metro areas. I've got close coworkers in other metro areas from me. I've got close friends who came from other rural areas, and know many people who live on these fringe of metro/rural kind of spaces. They all see the rural areas getting hollowed out economic-wise and the only real job opportunities are moving closer into cities.

I've driven through probably a dozen dead rural towns in Texas. Places that had what were probably lively town squares even in the 70s, probably had their last gasps in the 80s, and have been largely boarded up since then.

https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/notes/feds-notes/chan...

> We were never talking about a specific location.

I've absolutely been talking specific areas. Have you not been reading my comments and actually looking at the map in question? And then, this is still pretty similar for almost all the other, I dunno, top 30 or so cities by population?

> What kind of jobs are trapped in these seas of neighbourhoods?

Not in those neighborhoods, through those neighborhoods. Decades of continuously pushing the fringe suburb line further and further out has done this. The towns that were once the edge of the city are now 30+mi into the urban area, and they've never been allowed to densify. Once again, it feels like you haven't actually looked at that map I linked once. It would be pretty obvious spending not even five minutes looking at that map to see what I'm talking about.

> Tech might be an exception to that. Maybe that's where your mind went, given the nature of this site.

No. My wife doesn't work in tech and those people in Forney I'm taking about are security guards and building engineers. That's not tech. Once again, are you reading my comments? Where are you going to get a commercial property building engineer paying nearly $100k in a rural area? Going to get a finance job with JPMorgan Chase in a rural area? Far easier finding a civil engineering job in a place where civil engineers are actually building things like skyscrapers and giant highway interchanges and what not than a place that barely has a stoplight. You're not going to have as well paid healthcare job working at a rural hospital struggling to stay open especially after this next round of Medicaid cuts compared to the giant hospital networks like Baylor, UTSouthwestern, Memorial-Hermann, etc, especially if focused on some speciality.

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