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Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

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Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the future, a new intelligent species will roam the earth, they will ask, "why did their civilization fall?" The answer? These homo-sapiens strip mined the Earth and exacerbated climate change to generate enough power to make amusing cat videos...

We don't have an energy problem on earth. We have a capitalism problem. Renewable energy is easily able to provide enough energy sustainable. Batteries can be recycled. Solar panels are glas/plastic and silicium. Nuclear is feasable, fusion will happen in 50 years one way or the other. Existens is what it is. If it means being able to watch cat videos, so be it. We are not watching them for nothing, we watch them for…

Existens is what it is. If it means being able to watch cat videos, so be it. We are not watching them for nothing, we watch them for happiness.

Well that's just your opinion.

Yes we can generate electricity, but it would be nice if used it wisely.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>which is that I'd like more young folks to be positive, pick up tools at their disposal and build good things with them People have had access to tools for creating for generations. In the modern era you can buy a pencil and a sketch pad for dollars. You can buy an instrument used for as little as a hundred dollars. Hell, schools teach art and music for free. >The future's coming, and it's going to be built out by p…

I agree on the benefits of a hand-type craft, and that it’s an antidote to brain rot. Totally with you. I agree with the idea of “Amistics” (thanks Neal) - a sort of societal and moral lens to view technologies through and evaluate them. Totally with you there too. I agree that doomscrolling and social media are cancer-y in the extreme, to the extent that for a number of years I printed a daily personal newspaper. Sr…

>Calling them ‘not an artist’ based on their choice of tools is just totally incorrect

Here's the crux of the issue I have with this entire conversation--because you now are able to generate "artwork," you expect the artistic community to respect you as an artist. You're waltzing into the room with none of the same battle scars, experiences, or morals and demanding that they bestow upon you the title of "creator".

>By the way, it’s right to redefine what an artist is

Sure, but let artists be the ones who take charge in redefining what art is. How is it right to redefine what "art" and "creating" is without the goodwill or consent of the artistic community at large? You are effectively trying to force a hostile takeover of the space, to demand everyone consider your generated image/song/video be treated with the same amount of respect as actual art.

If you can't even be bothered to respect the artistic community enough to understand why they feel slighted over the creation of these tools, or to empathize with them over their impact in livelihood due to the proliferation of AI slop, why the hell do you expect them to consider you an artist?

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In your example, the "come up with your own story" part is the creative part. But you're not "directing" the AI to generate it for you. You're just giving it a command. You're selecting from the results it outputs, but you're not controlling the output. A film director is a creative. Ultimately, they are in charge of "visualizing" a screenplay": the setting, the the design of the set or the utilization of real locati…

So 1. being able to bring your own story come to life automatically is cool in itself, and would result in a lot of creative media that is not possible now. Do you know how many people have their own stories, plays, etc that are dying to find someone rich enough to get them published? 2. Using AI can be can be an iterative process. Generate this scene, make this look like that, make it brighter colors, remove this, a…

1. We already have that now, it's called Word. Most people are just too lazy to write out their story. AI doesn't improve the situation, it makes it worse. It will become vastly harder to find the good stuff in the avalanche of crap.

2. Current AI can't do what you're describing, so the biggest difference is that you're posing a hypothetical against the real world. But more specifically: the director already has a specific vision in their hand; the purpose of the "direction" is to bring this vision into reality within the scope of their budget and resources. With AI, you have a general idea and the AI creates its own vision and you pick what you like the best, until you ultimately realize the AI isn't going to get what you actually want and you settle for the best the AI can do for you. So, completely different.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People will always become lazy with new tools. But not all people. It'll lower the barrier of entry (and therefore the quality floor before people feel comfortable sharing something "they made" if they can deflect with an easy "the AI made this" versus "I put XY0 hours into this"), but it'll also empower people who wouldn't otherwise even try to create new things and, presumably, follow their passion to learn and do…

Im sure not all people will become lazy but im worried about the trend in general.

Creativity is an expression. It comes from the heart. Hard work isn't always the greatest vehicle for creativity. We just think it is. I've seen plenty of things that clearly took a lot of execution but fundamentally lack creativity, often becoming an exhibition in technical virtuosity.

Here's something you can try to prove it to yourself. Sit down and write a novel. It'll be like squeezing blood out of a rock unless your heart is ready to do it freely. You'll see that if you force yourself through hard work to do it, you'll just end up with something that people will laud as creative due to the execution but it'll lack everything about free-flowing creativity. Good programmers are lazy, so are good creatives, but now I'm just repeating myself.

It's a lot easier squeezing blood out of a heart, especially for the lazy.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#535

An indie film with poor production values, even bad acting can grip you, make you laugh and make you cry. The consistency of quality is key - even if it is poor. The directing is the red thread throughout the scenes. Anything with different quality levels interrupts your flow and breaks your experience. The problem with AI video content at this stage is that the clips are very good 'in themselves', just as LLM result…

Most Hollywood and indie films aren't that good. I feel the complete opposite of this comment.

Id much rather start seeing individuals creating AI movies where you aren't bogged down by the need to hire actors and what bot

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#536

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since the first GenAI started popping up, many people have glossed over the fact that they are just tools. All the anger from artists and keyboard warriors completely ignored the fact that you still need skill and time to make something good with these tools. Artists aren't going to be replaced by AI tools being used by me on my iPhone, those artists were already replaced by bulk art from IKEA et al. Artists who reje…

>Artists aren't going to be replaced by AI tools being used by me on my iPhone Except they already are. https://societyofauthors.org/2024/04/11/soa-survey-reveals-a...

I don't understand the argument that artists won't be replaced. I already am using AI to generate the art I need rather than farming it out

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#537

Earlier quoted context omitted.

do you think taking a photo of something is skipping to the end goal of painting? no. it will just be used as a tool for more creativity for the people who will do the work.

>do you think taking a photo of something is skipping to the end goal of painting Going outside and taking a photo requires you to be engaging with the scene around you. You are the actor doing the thing. When you prompt an AI, the AI is the actor doing the thing.

Would you consider film directors to be artists?

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#538

Can we talk about the elephant in the room, porn and i mean the weird and dangerous one? that moment in history of AI is going to happen and when it did shit will hit the fan.

AI-generated porn cannot be “dangerous” for the same reason a dream cannot be dangerous: they are not real, no matter how weird it is

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree on the benefits of a hand-type craft, and that it’s an antidote to brain rot. Totally with you. I agree with the idea of “Amistics” (thanks Neal) - a sort of societal and moral lens to view technologies through and evaluate them. Totally with you there too. I agree that doomscrolling and social media are cancer-y in the extreme, to the extent that for a number of years I printed a daily personal newspaper. Sr…

>Calling them ‘not an artist’ based on their choice of tools is just totally incorrect Here's the crux of the issue I have with this entire conversation--because you now are able to generate "artwork," you expect the artistic community to respect you as an artist. You're waltzing into the room with none of the same battle scars, experiences, or morals and demanding that they bestow upon you the title of "creator". >B…

Some ad hominem here; and a bunch of goalpost shifting. I’m not claiming to be an artist. Are you, by the way?

If you look through civitai and the stable diffusion subreddit you’ll find people who’ve spent thousands of hours tuning these AI tools to produce something that they imagined. In my mind, they’re artists. It might be bad art, some of it is, some of it is arguably not, but they fit the description to me. They certainly think of themselves as struggling to create things they envisioned, and sometimes achieving it.

As to who gets to define art and what art is: please understand that I’m saying —>> you are gatekeeping So, I have a broader view of the artistic community than you, full stop. It includes people whose livelihood is going to be disrupted by this technology. It includes a bunch of people who couldn’t create imagery they imagined before but can now.

Just as I can understand why Luddites burned shit in Northern England, I can understand and even respect a fight from interest groups to turn back the clock on new technology. And I am interested to see how strong guilds like SAG navigate and negotiate new economies around creating.

End of the day - I think moralizing in order to limit human creativity with bullshit made up rules about what an artist “is” or should be is foolish, wrong-headed, and ultimately doomed as an endeavor, plus it runs the risk of convincing new creatives not to engage. It’s a net loss for human creative output, while advocates get to pearl-clutch about the evils of tech. It’s just the wrong, wrong, wrong attitude to have about it; probably a waste of time trying to convince one well-spoken person on HN to change their views. But, hopefully you will. You could still rail against the tech by the way, or advocate for protectionism or a bunch of stuff, even if you decided to accept a person could use a diffusion model to make something creative.

Re: Veo 3 and Imagen 4, and a new tool for filmmaking called Flow

#540
post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Google is making money hosting these videos This isn't certain. Google do not break out Youtube revenues nor costs. Hosting this amount of videos, globally, redundantly, the vast majority of which are basically never watched, cannot be cheap. It's entirely plausible that Google's wider benefit from Youtube (such as training video generation algorithms and better behaviour tracking for better targeted ads across the…

> Google do not break out Youtube revenues nor costs. Google does break out Youtube revenue. Latest 10-K: https://abc.xyz/assets/77/51/9841ad5c4fbe85b4440c47a4df8d/go... See page 10, for youtube Ads revenue.

My bad, I thought it's the two. But they don't break out costs, so in reality we don't know if YouTube is profitable or not.
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