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How University Students Use Claude

anthropic.com

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Re: How University Students Use Claude

#531

Post by Suppafly »

bko wrote: post #35
dtnewman wrote: post #14

> A common question is: “how much are students using AI to cheat?” That’s hard to answer, especially as we don’t know the specific educational context where each of Claude’s responses is being used. I built a popular product that helps teachers with this problem. Yes, it's "hard to answer", but let's be honest... it's a very very widespread problem. I've talked to hundreds of teachers about this and it's a ubiquitous…

When modern search became more available, a lot of people said there's no point of rote memorization as you can just do a Google search. That's more or less accepted today. Whenever we have a new technology there's a response "why do I need to learn X if I can always do Y", and more or less, it has proven true, although not immediately. For instance, I'm not too concerned about my child's ability to write very legibl…

>So how do I answer my child when he asks "Why should I learn to do X if I can just ask an LLM and it will do it better than me"

Realistically it comes down to the idea that being an educated individual that knows how to think is important for being successful, and learning in school is the only way we know to optimize for that, even if it's likely not the most efficient way to do so.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#532

Post by [deleted] »

bko wrote: post #35
dtnewman wrote: post #14

> A common question is: “how much are students using AI to cheat?” That’s hard to answer, especially as we don’t know the specific educational context where each of Claude’s responses is being used. I built a popular product that helps teachers with this problem. Yes, it's "hard to answer", but let's be honest... it's a very very widespread problem. I've talked to hundreds of teachers about this and it's a ubiquitous…

When modern search became more available, a lot of people said there's no point of rote memorization as you can just do a Google search. That's more or less accepted today. Whenever we have a new technology there's a response "why do I need to learn X if I can always do Y", and more or less, it has proven true, although not immediately. For instance, I'm not too concerned about my child's ability to write very legibl…

[deleted]

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#533

Post by codedokode »

Ekaros wrote: post #414
codedokode wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> self-built building by somebody who's neither engineer nor architect That is exactly how our ancestors built houses. Also a traditional wooden house doesn't look complicated.

>Law § 229 of Hammurabi's Code >If a house builder built a house for a man but did not secure/fortify his work so that the house he built collapsed and caused the death of the house owner, that house builder will be executed. If even professionals did get it wrong so often that there had to be law for it... Yeah, maybe it is not that simple.

In a village most houses were built by their owners. I am not talking here about nicely decorated brick buildings in a city: they were obviously designed and built by professionals.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#534

Post by istjohn »

moojacob wrote: post #86

How can I, as a student, avoid hindering my learning with language models? I use Claude, a lot. I’ll upload the slides and ask questions. I’ve talked to Claude for hours trying to break down a problem. I think I’m learning more. But what I think might not be what’s happening. In one of my machine learning classes, cheating is a huge issue. People are using LMs to answer multiple choice questions on quizzes that are o…

I believe conversation is a one of the best ways to really learn a topic, so long as it is used deliberately.

My folk theory of education is that there is a sequence you need to complete to truly master a topic.

Step 1: You start with receptive learning where you take in information provided to you by a teacher, book, AI or other resource. This doesn't have to be totally passive. For examble, it could take the form of Socratic questioning to guide you towards an understanding.

Step 2: Then you digest the material. You connect it to what you already know. You play with the ideas. This can happen in an internal monologue as you read a textbook, in a question and answer period after a lecture, in a study group conversation, when you review your notes, or as you complete homework questions.

Step 3: Finally, you practice applying the knowledge. At this stage, you are testing the understanding and intuition you developed during digestion. This is where homework assignments, quizes, and tests are key.

This cycle can occur over a full semester, but it can also occur as you read a single textbook paragraph. First, you read (step 1). Then you stop and think about what this means and how it connects to what you previously read. You make up an imaginary situation and think about what it implies (step 2). Then you work out a practice problem (step 3).

Note that it is iterative. If you discover in step 3 a misunderstanding, you may repeat the loop with an emphasis on your confusion.

I think AI can be extremely helpful in all three stages of learning--in particular, for steps 2 and 3. It's invaluable to have quick feedback at step 3 to understand if you are on the right trail. It doesn't make sense to wait for feedback until a teacher's aid gets around to grading your HW if you can get feedback right now with AI.

The danger is if you don't give yourself a chance to struggle through step 3 before getting feedback. The amount of struggle that is appropriate will vary and is a subtle question.

Philosophers, mathematicians, and physicists in training obviously need to learn to be comfortable finding their way through hairy problems without any external source of truth to guide them. But this is a useful muscle that arguably everyone should exercise to some extent. On the other hand, the majority of learning for the majority of students is arguably more about mastering a body of knowledge than developing sheer brain power.

Ultimately, you have to take charge of your own learning. AI is a wonderful learning tool if used thoughtfully and with discipline.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#535

Post by toxicdevil »

dtnewman wrote: post #14

> A common question is: “how much are students using AI to cheat?” That’s hard to answer, especially as we don’t know the specific educational context where each of Claude’s responses is being used. I built a popular product that helps teachers with this problem. Yes, it's "hard to answer", but let's be honest... it's a very very widespread problem. I've talked to hundreds of teachers about this and it's a ubiquitous…

I once had an algorithms professor who would give us written home assignments and then on the day of submission take a quiz with identical questions. A significant portion of the class did poorly on these quizes despite scoring good on the assignment.

I can't even imagine how learning is impacted by the (ab)use of AI.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#536

Post by nextos »

yamazakiwi wrote: post #518
nextos wrote: post #515

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My CS undergrad school used to let students look up documentation during coding exams. Most courses had a 3-5 hour coding challenge where you had to make substantial changes to a course project you had developed. I think this could also be the right response to LLMs. Let students use whatever they want to use, and test true skills and understanding. FWIW, exams testing rote learning without the ability to look up thi…

That is a great idea! Most students would find getting their hands dirty in this way more valuable than reading about something from start to end.

Yes, it led to well-rounded learning. But we had too many courses and, overall, I think it was too much. All CS courses had a theoretical exam, some project-based learning, and some coding exam to prevent cheating in the project-based learning part.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#537

Post by dodslaser »

Suppafly wrote: post #525
lr4444lr wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people are "good drivers" outside their home town? I am not that old, but old enough to remember all adults taking wrong turns trying to find new destinations for the first time.

>How many people are "good drivers" outside their home town? My wife is surprisingly good at remembering routes, she'll use the GPS the first time, but generally remembers the route after that. She still isn't good at knowing which direction is east vs west or north/south, but neither am I.

I'm like that too, but I don't think it transfers particularly well to LLMs. The problem is that you can just skip straight to the answer and ignore the explanation (if it even produces one).

It would be pretty neat if there was an LLM that guides you towards the right answer without giving it to you. Asking questions and possibly giving small hints along the way.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#538

Post by jplusequalt »

educasean wrote: post #234
jplusequalt wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>50 years from new the career of a "coder" will evoke the same historical quaintness as does "switchboard operator" or "wainwright." And what happens to those coders? For that matter--what happens to all the other jobs at risk of being replaced by AI? Where are all the high paying jobs these disenfranchised laborers will flock to when their previous careers are made obsolete? We live in a highly specialized society t…

It took me a long time to master the pen tool in Photoshop. I don't mean that I spent a weekend and learned how it worked. I meant that out of all the graphic designers at the agency I was working for, I was the designer who had the most flawless pen-tool skills and thus was the envy of many. It is now an obsolete skill. You can segment anything instantly and the results are pristine. Thanks to technology one no long…

How is a pen tool in Photoshop equivalent to an AI that can perform your entire job at a lower cost remotely similar? There are levels to this, and I don't think the same old platitudes apply.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#539

Post by sersi »

kgwgk wrote: post #396
sersi wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's also how it's done in almost all French engineering schools. You get open book tests with a small amount of relatively difficult questions and you have 3-4 hours to complete. In some of the CS tests, coding by hand sucks a bit but to be honest, they're ok with pseudo code as long as you show you understand the concepts.

The European mind cannot comprehend take-home exams.

Well take home exams are not very useful nowadays with AI. And yeah, other commenters are right when he says there's no European mind when it comes to education, each country does its own thing.

Re: How University Students Use Claude

#540

Post by jplusequalt »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #267
jplusequalt wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think more and more workers are warming up to unions. As wages in software continue to be oppressed, I think we'll see an increase in unionization efforts for software engineers.

"Gee, it seems that people in my profession are in danger of being replaced by AI. I wonder if there's anything I can do to help speed up that process..."

Worker solidarity works. Whether you agree with the methods or not is irrelevant.
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