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Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

bbc.com

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Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#531

Post by nicce »

adrian_b wrote: post #389
quitit wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The missing context here is that the science and established benefits of fluoride aren’t a culture war political football in those countries. These countries largely publicly recognise the benefits of fluoride, but don’t add it because: - Some countries opt for intake via supplementation. - Some have a naturally sufficient supply in drinking water via natural processes. - Some even need to reduce the abundance of flu…

[flagged]

> 1. The beneficial effect of fluoride occurs only when fluoride is applied externally, in contact with the tooth enamel

I think you are kinda misusing science/not science arguments.

This is indeed the scientific reason why there is flouride in the water. It is also scientific reason why some countries removed it.

In some countries people take care of their teeth on average and in other countries not so much. So there is science for why fluoridation happens. You can read many articles about the fluoride benefits for teeth and what is the impact of teeth for overall health.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#532

Post by Perenti »

j_maffe wrote: post #515
Perenti wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not true. Every time I see a dentist here in Queensland (non-fluoridated water) he asks me where else I lived as my teeth are so much better than what he usually sees, and if drilling my teeth are much harder than most Queenslanders. My early years were spent in Melbourne, where fluoridation was introduced around 1970. That's the only time I lived with fluoridated water, for about 3 years. yet dentists can see the ef…

You're refuting a statment based on studies and statistics by anecdotal evedince. Also, GP never denied that flouridation is still helpful for non-brushing residents.

Poster claimed fluoridation was unnessecary in many parts of the world. This is true of places with natural fluoridation. But not everyone has access to fluoridated toothpaste, or even toothpaste. To assume otherwise is assuming everyone is neurotypical in a developed country.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#533

Post by heavyset_go »

torginus wrote: post #456
jdminhbg wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I love about this comment is that one person thought "of course every other country just does the right thing when the US doesn't" and posted it, and then a bunch of other people thought "of course every other country just does the right thing when the US doesn't" and upvoted it, and not a single one of them thought to check what the "right thing" is. Meanwhile, back here on Earth-1, there's no right thing, and…

Generally speaking I see fluoridation as a ridiciulous idea, on the grounds that the vast majority of tap water ends up being used for things other than brushing your teeth. It is wasteful and damaging to the environment, that excess flouride that has no business being there ends up in the drain, or the water you use for your plants. Flouride should be put in the toothpaste. Then people can make a choice on whether t…

> It is wasteful and damaging to the environment

It's basically a waste product and water naturally has fluoride in it at the same levels, or more, that fluoridated water has, and the environment has been just fine in those places.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#534

Post by atesti »

kleiba wrote: post #481
hayst4ck wrote: post #347

Putting fluoride in water promotes freedom. That sounds crazy, but let me justify it. If you are poor you can't go anywhere or buy anything. You're not free if you're poor. If you are sick, you may be confined to a hospital bed or not feel good enough to do anything. If you are sick you're not free. Putting fluoride in water reduces dental costs and incidence of cavities and therefore tooth infections, particularly a…

I lived in Germany for a while. There, the water that comes out of your tab doesn't get fluorized. Instead, they add fluoride to tooth paste. So, is Germany less free or more free?

Isn't it also added to salt?

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#535

Post by drcongo »

Mistletoe wrote: post #301
jdminhbg wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I love about this comment is that one person thought "of course every other country just does the right thing when the US doesn't" and posted it, and then a bunch of other people thought "of course every other country just does the right thing when the US doesn't" and upvoted it, and not a single one of them thought to check what the "right thing" is. Meanwhile, back here on Earth-1, there's no right thing, and…

What does the UK do? This will tell you what people should do because I’ve seen English teeth. > In England, approximately 10% of the population, or around 6 million people, receive fluoridated water, either naturally or through water fluoridation schemes, mainly in the West Midlands and the North East. Uh oh. I know it is better now but in 1978 a third of people in the UK didn’t have their natural teeth.

My grandfather, who was still alive in 1978, had all his teeth removed and was given a set of dentures when conscripted into WWII. From what I can gather this was pretty common - the service dentist would check you over on arrival and if you had at least one cavity they'd whip the lot out so that they wouldn't need to do anything else to them for the rest of your service.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#536

Post by ost-ing »

hayst4ck wrote: post #347

Putting fluoride in water promotes freedom. That sounds crazy, but let me justify it. If you are poor you can't go anywhere or buy anything. You're not free if you're poor. If you are sick, you may be confined to a hospital bed or not feel good enough to do anything. If you are sick you're not free. Putting fluoride in water reduces dental costs and incidence of cavities and therefore tooth infections, particularly a…

Rather than taking choice away, we should be educating people on what the best choice is and letting them make it themselves.

Brush your teeth in the morning and in the evening. Standard dental hygiene - If a person can be an obedient worker they can probably brush their teeth twice a day. If they cant, they have bigger problems to sort out.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#537

Post by manmal »

heavyset_go wrote: post #530
hayst4ck wrote: post #347

Putting fluoride in water promotes freedom. That sounds crazy, but let me justify it. If you are poor you can't go anywhere or buy anything. You're not free if you're poor. If you are sick, you may be confined to a hospital bed or not feel good enough to do anything. If you are sick you're not free. Putting fluoride in water reduces dental costs and incidence of cavities and therefore tooth infections, particularly a…

Fluoridated water, enriched flour, iodized salt, vaccines, etc. are why we don't see diseases and conditions that plagued us in the past and continue to plague people in places without these measures. Fluoridated water is the reason I've never had a cavity despite growing up poor with a terrible diet, dental hygiene and care.

> Fluoridated water is the reason I've never had a cavity despite growing up poor with a terrible diet, dental hygiene and care.

I don’t follow the leap here. You could just be blessed with a good oral microbiome, proper calcium, D3 (sunlight exposure?), K2 etc.

Going by your logic, there should be no dentists in the US.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#538

Post by baxuz »

hayst4ck wrote: post #347

Putting fluoride in water promotes freedom. That sounds crazy, but let me justify it. If you are poor you can't go anywhere or buy anything. You're not free if you're poor. If you are sick, you may be confined to a hospital bed or not feel good enough to do anything. If you are sick you're not free. Putting fluoride in water reduces dental costs and incidence of cavities and therefore tooth infections, particularly a…

That is not a very good reason. An absurd version of that would be putting antibiotics into the water because a lot of people don't have health insurance and can get infections.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#539

Post by pembrook »

hayst4ck wrote: post #347

Putting fluoride in water promotes freedom. That sounds crazy, but let me justify it. If you are poor you can't go anywhere or buy anything. You're not free if you're poor. If you are sick, you may be confined to a hospital bed or not feel good enough to do anything. If you are sick you're not free. Putting fluoride in water reduces dental costs and incidence of cavities and therefore tooth infections, particularly a…

Always question whenever a highly educated and thoughtful (and likely wealthy) person like this commenter is telling you poor people are too stupid for their own good and can’t make decisions for themselves.

This is the definition of the principal-agent problem.

Also, “positive freedom” is a hilarious rebranding of dictatorial decision making.

Why not grant more “positive freedom” to the people by deciding exactly what these poor people should do for a living, how they should live, and how they should spend their money. The experts know best, after all.

I’m not even particularly against fluoride in water, but this kind of reasoning is insidious. If the people have voted for representatives that are against it, we should follow the will of the people. This is the definition of democracy.

Re: Utah becomes first US state to ban fluoride in its water

#540

Post by beowulfey »

ekianjo wrote: post #479
estebank wrote: post #390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's a huge difference between "no longer as necessary" and "let's ban it".

You can add fluoride in your own water if you want to. Nobody is preventing your own freedom to drink fluoride.

That argument works both ways. You can also source your own water if you don't want municipal water.
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