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I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

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Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#531
post #48

The most interesting thing about this post is how it reinforces how terrible the usability of LLMs still is today: "I ask them to give me a source for an alleged quote, I click on the link, it returns a 404 error. I Google for the alleged quote, it doesn't exist. They reference a scientific publication, I look it up, it doesn't exist." To experienced LLM users that's not surprising at all - providing citations, sourc…

This sort of concrete verifiable hallucinations can be trained out and probably will be soon

people have said this since chatGPT first released

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#532

I get so confused on this. I play around, test, and mess with LLMs all the time and they are miraculous. Just amazing, doing things we dreamed about for decades. I mean, I can ask for obscure things with subtle nuance where I misspell words and mess up my question and it figures it out. It talks to me like a person. It generates really cool images. It helps me write code. And just tons of other stuff that astounds me…

If you ask for obscure things how do you know you are getting right answers? From my experience unless the thing you are looking for is not found easily with a google search LLMs have no hope getting it correct. This is mostly trying to code against obscure API that isn’t well documented and the little documentation there is is spread across multiple wikis. And the LLMs keep hallucinating functions that simply do not exist

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#533

I get so confused on this. I play around, test, and mess with LLMs all the time and they are miraculous. Just amazing, doing things we dreamed about for decades. I mean, I can ask for obscure things with subtle nuance where I misspell words and mess up my question and it figures it out. It talks to me like a person. It generates really cool images. It helps me write code. And just tons of other stuff that astounds me…

a lot of it is just plain denial. a certain subgenre of person will forever attack everything AI does because they feel threatened by it and a certain other subgenre of person will just copy this behaviour and parrot opinions for upvotes/likes/retweets.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#534
post #406

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wah, it can't write code like a Senior engineer with 20 years of experience! No, that's not my problem with it. My problem with it is that inbuilt into the models of all LLMs is that they'll fabricate a lot. What's worse, people are treating them as authoritative. Sure, sometimes it produces useful code. And often, it'll simply call the "doTheHardPart()" method. I've even caught it literally writing the wrong algor…

The superficial view: „they hallucinate“ The underlying cause: 3rd order ignorance: 3rd Order Ignorance (3OI)—Lack of Process. I have 3OI when I don't know a suitably efficient way to find out I don't know that I don't know something. This is lack of process, and it presents me with a major problem: If I have 3OI, I don't know of a way to find out there are things I don't know that I don't know. —- not from an llm My…

But the issue of the structural fault remains. To state the phenomenon (hallucination) is not "superficial", as the root does not add value in the context.

Symptom: "Response was, 'Use the `solvetheproblem` command'". // Cause: "It has no method to know that there is no `solvetheproblem` command". // Alarm: "It is suggested that it is trying to guess a plausible world through lacking wisdom and data". // Fault: "It should have a database of what seems to be states of facts, and it should have built the ability to predict the world more faithfully to facts".

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#535
post #3

You're using them wrong. Everyone is though I can't fault you specifically. Chatbot is like the worst possible application of these technologies. Of late, deaf tech forums are taken over by language model debates over which works best for speech transcription. (Multimodal language models are the the state of the art in machine transcription. Everyone seems to forget that when complaining they can't cite sources for s…

> ...there was no such thing as live machine transcription ten years ago.

What? Then what the hell do you call Dragon NaturallySpeaking and other similar software in that niche?

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#537
post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My problem with it is that inbuilt into the models of all LLMs is that they'll fabricate a lot. What's worse, people are treating them as authoritative. The same is true about the internet, and people even used to use these arguments to try to dissuade people from getting their information online (back when Wikipedia was considered a running joke, and journalists mocked blogs). But today it would be considered sill…

I have decided it must be attached to a sort of superiority complex. These types of people believe they are capable of deciphering fact from fiction but the general population isn’t so LLMs scare them because someone might hear something wrong and believe it. It almost seems delusional. You have to be incredibly self aggrandizing in your mind to think this way. If LLMs were actually causing “a problem” then there wou…

No matter how things will evolve, that Ghiblification is something we will look back to in twenty years and say: "Remember how cool that was?"

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#538

I get so confused on this. I play around, test, and mess with LLMs all the time and they are miraculous. Just amazing, doing things we dreamed about for decades. I mean, I can ask for obscure things with subtle nuance where I misspell words and mess up my question and it figures it out. It talks to me like a person. It generates really cool images. It helps me write code. And just tons of other stuff that astounds me…

This is the place where tech shiny meets actual use cases, and users aren’t really good at articulating their problems.

Its also a slow burn issue - you have to use it for a while for what is obvious to users, to become obvious to people who are tech first.

The primary issue is the hype and forecasted capabilities vs actual use cases. People want something they can trust as much as an authority, not as much as a consultant.

If I were to put it in a single sentence? These are primarily narrative tools, being sold as factual /scientific tools.

When this is pointed out, the conversation often shifts to “well people aren’t that great either”. This takes us back to how these tools are positioned and sold. They are being touted as replacements to people in the future. When this claim is pressed, we get to the start of this conversation.

Frankly, people on HN aren’t pessimistic enough about what is coming down the pipe. I’ve started looking at how to work in 0 Truth scenarios, not even 0 trust. This is a view held by everyone I have spoken to in fraud, misinformation, online safety.

There’s a recent paper which showed that GAI tools improved the profitability of Phishing attempts by something like 50x in some categories, and made previously loss making (in $/hour terms) targets, profitable. Schneier was one of the authors.

A few days ago I found out someone I know who works in finance, had been deepfaked and their voice/image used to hawk stock tips. People were coming to their office to sue them.

I love tech, but this is the dystopia part of cyberpunk being built. These are narrative tools, good enough to make people think they are experts..

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#539

I get so confused on this. I play around, test, and mess with LLMs all the time and they are miraculous. Just amazing, doing things we dreamed about for decades. I mean, I can ask for obscure things with subtle nuance where I misspell words and mess up my question and it figures it out. It talks to me like a person. It generates really cool images. It helps me write code. And just tons of other stuff that astounds me…

The real problem is that they are fundamentally unreliable once you start looking closer at their answers.

Re: I genuinely don't understand why some people are still bullish about LLMs

#540

A bunch of comments here seem to be missing a point : the author is (at least was ?) a scientist. Her primarily work interest is in the truth, not the statically plausible. Her point is that using LLM to generate truth is pointless, and that people should stop advertising llms as "intelligent", since, to a scientist, being "intelligent" and being "dead wrong" are polar opposite. Other use cases have feedback loops -…

I don’t think it’s fair to say LLMs are “statistically plausible” text generators. It ignores the emergent world model that enables them to generalise outside of their training set. LLMs aren’t a lookup table, and they’re not n-grams.
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