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Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#531

One more, somewhat important, detail that's also very telling about where the US administration is heading. Reuters and Associated Press were barred from Oval Office during this meeting, but a Russian state news agency TASS reporter was allowed - into the Oval Office. Wake up America before it's too late.

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Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#533

I would like to know what the alternatives are. None that I can think of are palatable: 1. Support Ukraine enough so that Russia doesn't take too much more territory, but not enough for Russia to feel threatened and escalate the war. This was the Biden plan and it sounds like what Europe wants. I just don't see how this ends the war. Is this just buying time for someone to depose Putin? 2. Support Ukraine enough so i…

I think the "mineral rights" deal might play into this. In the full interview[0], Trump mentions it right off the bat, and talks about how it "means we're going to be inside".

I think it goes in tandem with your number (3). Like you say, why would Russia not violate the agreement? I think maybe the move is "well now we have citizens in there working so don't blow us up". It's one thing for Russia to attack the Ukraine, but another if they have collateral damage that takes out Americans.

I don't even know how valuable the actual underlying resources are, so much as a bit of "kayfabe" between the Ukraine, US, and Russia, that things are different.

Anyway, that's my hope.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um19Mf4dYes

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#534
I watched the entire meeting attentively from start to finish, and in my opinion, nothing major happened. There was a slight argument, but then the emotions cooled down a bit. What did happen, however, was complete madness in the media. The media went crazy. I think any rational person should know that it’s not worth listening to the media, especially mainstream ones.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#535
post #228

Well, here come the downvotes, but for anybody who thinks that it is completely believable that Trump is a Russian stooge or is “on Russias side” let me offer this up: - We want peace. Full stop. No more dead men, women, and children. THAT IS THE GOAL. CONTEXT: - Trump armed Ukraine to the teeth in first term, providing lethal aid which previous presidents did not do. He wanted to deter Putin while not also escalatin…

We want peace! If your own country was invaded, would you be saying the same thing? Just roll over and let them have their way with you? I'm genuinely curious if you have the courage of what you say your convictions are.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#537

Ukraine is in a bind, and the US has the power to do whatever it wants. But boy, will the nations of the world remember this -- how quickly the US can turn from ally to bully. A really bad day for US foreign policy. The EU is going to be thinking long and hard about the future of NATO now.

The US has been a bully since at least WW2. The US has been betraying "allies" for just as long.

Russia's invasion of Ukraine has been a godsend for US influence. Finland and Sweden joined NATO. The Russian military was exposed as a paper tiger. A huge portion of the Russian military's capability was destroyed without a single US military serviceman or asset being deployed. Russian energy exports to Europe (and the influence that gives them) have dropped to a mere fraction of what they were in 2020. Europe is now dependant on US LNG exports.

The second largest military in NATO is Turkey and Turkey is America's puppet. Turkey has been in direct military conflict with other NATO members (ie Greece) with the blessing of the US.

Ceding territory to Russia, which seems all but inevitable now, doesn't change the the security picture for Europe. Russia still can't occupy Ukraine. That was true before the invasion. It's still true now. They certainly can't roll into Poland let alone Germany and Western Europe.

The EU really has no interest in paying for their own security. Politically it's a nonstarter too with the right of far-right parties like National Front in France and AfD, AfD in Germany and Reform in the UK.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#538
post #212

I am sincerely curious what Andreesen and Horowitz believe at the moment.

This is their government. Vance is their puppet. This is what they wanted.

Andreesen's little pseudo-manifesto a couple years back was fairly explicitly taking anti-liberal positions, and some that were outright anti-enlightenment.

Not surprising really. We now see an alliance between the tech sector of the US economy and the oil and gas sector. Remember Putin is effectively oil baron/executive, not just the leader of a country.

Re: Zelensky leaves White House after angry meeting

#539

I am born in Ukraine and live now in Europe. As European I may understand your disappointment with the West letting down some "rules based" order and democratic values. Yet as Ukrainian, I know unfortunately that the premises of the "rules based world" do not apply to many regions in the world, inclusive Ukraine. Let me explain, a rule-based order means that the monopoly of violence is the privilege of the state: if…

Mersheimer is mostly wrong. I urge you to seek alternate sources.
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