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Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

blog.mozilla.org

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Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#531

The other WTF is here: Your use of Firefox must follow Mozilla’s Acceptable Use Policy, and you agree that you will not use Firefox to infringe anyone’s rights or violate any applicable laws or regulations. Acceptable Use Policy links to https://www.mozilla.org/about/legal/acceptable-use/ which says "You may not use any of Mozilla’s services to[...]Upload, download, transmit, display, or grant access to content that…

> I recommend switching to an alternative browser which is only a browser, like Dillo, Ladybird, or Netsurf. Did not know any of those alternatives thanks for sharing. After a quick online search, I see they could work for casual browsing and it's great that they don't rely on Chromium But do you think these can be a full browser replacement without extension ecosystems like ublock origin et al.?

If you're on macOS, then Kagi's Orion seems good:

https://kagi.com/orion

It's been working fine for me anyway.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#532
post #437

To Mozilla: if your intentions are indeed good as you claim in your post[1], then update the ToS accordingly. Chrome is removing µBlock origin, I and probably a lot of other users saw this as a good moment to promote Firefox to our relatives, you are missing a chance and alienating your user base here. [1] https://blog.mozilla.org/en/products/firefox/firefox-news/fi...

Absolutely agree. The blog post is claiming the opposite to what their ToS is granting - but one is fluff (that will be forgotten soon) while the other is legally binding. I cannot imagine applications like browsers that would require such an unrestricted license for user input just to do its service. That clearly indicates some "other" future motive that is underlined by the notion to remove the FAQ entry and other past actions towards an advertising future at Mozilla.

Am looking forward to explore some of the alternatives. And no, I don't want a just a correcting/updating/informing follow-up blog post of how we the users got it all wrong. In fact, the current UPDATE makes it worse:

"UPDATE: We’ve seen a little confusion about the language regarding licenses, so we want to clear that up. We need a license to allow us to make some of the basic functionality of Firefox possible. Without it, we couldn’t use information typed into Firefox, for example. It does NOT give us ownership of your data or a right to use it for anything other than what is described in the Privacy Notice."

vs. the ToS:

"You give Mozilla all rights necessary to operate Firefox, including processing data as we describe in the Firefox Privacy Notice, as well as acting on your behalf to help you navigate the internet. When you upload or input information through Firefox, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information to help you navigate, experience, and interact with online content as you indicate with your use of Firefox."

No - you don't need a license for my input. Just pass the butter, it's not your job to "use that information" in any way, form or shape. How did you survive 26 years without any license to our input? What did legally change that would require that license? No one asked you to: "We use data to make Firefox functional and sustainable, improve your experience, and keep you safe." (from the blog). What does that even mean? If you have specific use-cases in mind state them clearly, instead of this overreaching general license, that may or may not be misused now or in future. As of this ToS you may very sell my data to AI companies to "help me navigate the internet" which is not even part of the Privacy Notice protection.

Reinstatement your privacy guarantees in the ToS and be transparent about explicit use-cases.

Meanwhile, so long, and thanks for all the fish.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#533
I was pretty confused about why this even exists (it's weird to read a bunch of paragraphs that are semantically valid but don't seem to convey information), and then I read the [Privacy Notice](https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/privacy/firefox). Looks like there's a decent amount of surveillance / ad tech built in to Firefox.

From "How is your data used?":

> Firefox also shows its own search suggestions based on information stored on your local device (including recent search terms, open tabs, and previously visited URLs). These suggestions may include sponsored suggestions from Mozilla’s partners

> Mozilla's partners receive de-identified information about interactions with the suggestions they've served.

> Depending on your location, Mozilla derives the high level category (e.g., travel, shopping) of your search from keywords in that query, in order to understand the types and number of searches being made. We utilize privacy preserving technologies such that Mozilla only learns that someone, somewhere, performed a search relating to a particular category, without knowing who.

> Mozilla may also receive location-related keywords from your search (such as when you search for “Boston”) and share this with our partners to provide recommended and sponsored content. Where this occurs, Mozilla cannot associate the keyword search with an individual user once the search suggestion has been served and partners are never able to associate search suggestions with an individual user.

> You may be able to opt into an enhanced search experience, which will result in Mozilla processing additional personal data, including your technical data, location and search data. Some of that information may be shared with our partners on a de-identified and/or aggregated basis.

> We use technical data, language preference, and location to serve content and advertising on the Firefox New Tab page in the correct format (i.e. for mobile vs desktop), language, and relevant location. Mozilla collects technical and interaction data, such as the position, size, views and clicks on New Tab content or ads, to understand how people are interacting with our content and to personalize future content, including sponsored content. This data may be shared with our advertising partners on a de-identified or aggregated basis.

> In some instances, when ads are enabled on New Tab, additional browsing data may also be processed locally on your device to measure the effectiveness of those ads; such data will only be shared with Mozilla and/or our advertising partners via our privacy-preserving technologies on an aggregated and/or de-identified basis.

> When you allow us to do so, Firefox sends Mozilla data about the website domain or specific advertising campaign (if any) that referred you to our download page to help us understand and improve our marketing efforts. Firefox also shares information with our marketing partners to measure and improve these campaigns; what information is specifically shared varies (depending on how you discovered Firefox and your operating system) but generally includes how you were referred to our download page and whether you actively use Firefox. Where Firefox is pre-installed on your device, technical and interaction data (your device type and whether Firefox is used) will be sent to our marketing partners, and shared with Mozilla.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#534
post #501

> When you upload or input information through Firefox, you hereby grant us a nonexclusive, royalty-free, worldwide license to use that information, Taken literally it means that when I use Firefox to upload a file to a customer's web site Mozilla is getting that file too, which does not seem likely. They could get a copy of the text I'm typing right now in Firefox or it means that the browser could do some local pro…

As the browser runs locally on our machine, surely its possible to just block firefox phoning home by DNS black holes or even hosts file or something?

That's exactly what Firefox originally claimed was a stark difference compared to Chrome: "use us and you can finally be safe and not need to play cat and mouse anymore"

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have long left the sinking ship and switched to enshitified and actually private https://librewolf.net/

Which will go under within a few years of FF dying. (Yes, the current code may still work, but the web will move on without it.)

I am very aware but that does not change that currently its a superior alternative.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#538

Can't wait for Ladybird to become usable. To be fair, it already is fairly usable, but I'd need history syncing / Keychain sync to make it a daily driver.

Do you really? Seems you can wait, as do many of us. By waiting, what behavior do we encourage in software makers?

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just use https://librewolf.net

So: # apt install librewolf Reading package lists... Done Building dependency tree... Done Reading state information... Done E: Unable to locate package librewolf If the thing that doesn't suck isn't the thing that comes with the OS, it's time to fix the OS. Also, that feature should exist. The next time I see a story about MS training ChatGPT on your nude selfies, I want to be able to show people the big red switch…

Apt is basically just a bad package manager:

  nix run nixpkgs#librewolf
But I do agree, it's hard to find these alternatives, and have them be "just works". Librewolf still sometimes have weird issues (for good reasons!), but it means I don't recommend it to "normies". I just tell them to use firefox and most importantly adblock, giving up ads is a huge ROI both in terms of quality of life and data privacy. Everything else is almost marginal in comparison.

Re: Introducing a terms of use and updated privacy notice for Firefox

#540
post #490

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No better place to leave for This is an amazingly common psychological trap. You wouldn't believe the number of people, men as well as women, who end up in the therapy chair, at the police station or at the hospital A&E, because they are "stuck" with a violent and abusive partner. The modern tech landscape is all about abuse. People use fancy names for it like "enshitification" or "rot economy" - but at the end of…

This is a poor analogy. There are thousands of people to meet and bond with, so you do have a choice. But there are less than a handful of fundamentally different browsers. Derivative browsers don't really count here, as they depend on the upstream to not hurt them. For instance, if the parent project completely removes something essential for privacy, it it a lot of work to keep it in your code. The Manifest v2 remo…

> This is a poor analogy. There are thousands of people to meet and bond with, so you do have a choice. But there are less than a handful of fundamentally different browsers.

This is because users decided that they want a browser that spies on them.

At least in Germany in hacker and IT-affine circles, you will often be frowned upon if you voluntarily use Chrome or Edge (except if you have a really good reason).

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