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FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

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Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#531

Post by hakfoo »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #472
michaelmrose wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there a well functioning large country that doesn't effectively govern this way? The US isn't well functioning its just rich

I think most democratic nations have a similar principle of separation of powers, so... almost all of them? The US is rich because it's well functioning.

The US is rich for many reasons that have little to do with being well governed.

* The country was launched on most of a century of essentially "free" land grabs-- limited pushback from native civilizations. buying cheap from distressed foreign powers (Louisiana), the main wars of conquest being insignificant squabbles with Mexico over trifles.

* Said land was also compelling-- you weren't fighting the environment to extract value the way you would be in Siberia.

* After 1865, no significant nation-scale conflict on the territory itself to blow down existing investments.

* This created an opportunity for bulk immigration-- first with Homestead Act style programmes and then because the American economy was compelling enough to be a pull by itself. A high immigrant population has a unique "opt-in" demographics-- a situation that self-selects for entrepeneurialism.

None of this required wildly competent government. George Washington could have chosen to be a king, a religious caliph, or a protosocialist planning enthusiast, and the deck would have still held almost all the same cards.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#532

Post by cgarvis »

breadwinner wrote: post #140

This shouldn't be controversial. FTC isn't banning these fees, it is only requiring merchants to disclose the fees. Why would anyone be against that? Another good rule is click-to-cancel. Just a couple of days ago I logged into my Dish Network account to cancel it (after they hiked prices). There is no way to cancel online. There is no way to cancel via chat. You have to call. As soon as you call you're told the wait…

Dish outsources sales calls to a third party. This third party doesn’t have access to customer accounts so they have to send you to an actual Dish call center. Not as nefarious as you think but still frustrating.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#533

Post by bsimpson »

munk-a wrote: post #3

An excellent change. It's unfortunate that stewardship of the committee will soon change hands as Khan has been a great advocate for fair contracts between companies and consumers during her tenure.

Tangential, but I was looking into this yesterday and couldn't find the answer:

How does her term work?

Seats on the FTC are supposed to last for 7 years. She was nominated in 2021 and her term technically expired a couple months ago. Apparently she gets to remain in it until a replacement is appointed.

Has she just been filling in the remainder of someone else's term, like Laphonza Butler as CA Senator?

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#534

Post by plagiarist »

Ajedi32 wrote: post #453
maximusdrex wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your understanding is not correct. Chevron deference never meant agencies can just make up and pass law; it was a legal doctrine which merely stated that in places where the law is ambiguous (say a law declares water must be clean of pollutants, or bans pistol braces) that courts should look at any guidance from relevant agencies for guidance, since supposedly they should know more about the subject than the courts.…

> Chevron deference never meant agencies can just make up and pass law Not on it's own, no. The bigger culprit there is the erosion of the nondelegation doctrine. But Chevron aggravated the problem by allowing agencies to stretch their authority beyond what even congress intended with little possibility of legal challenge. Interpreting the law is and should be the role of the courts, not the role of the agencies that…

It would not be like that, since insurance companies are not government agencies.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#535

Post by Erwin »

SparkyMcUnicorn wrote: post #485
alberth wrote: post #432

The hidden fees is what turned me off from AirBnb... Because it would display the nightly rate as $X. But then at checkout, it would add in "house cleaning fees" etc (which I don't dispute is a fair fee to include) but it at times can grossly misrepresent what your true nightly cost is when searching. Maybe this will be a step in the direction like Telco's have had to do with creating simplified & standardized "nutri…

On AirBnB just check the "Display total before taxes" box on the search results page. Not including fees in the nightly rate makes sense as some are fixed rate, and having the option to see the cost for the total stay (including fees) solves the problem.

In EU, you see the total and per-night inclusive all of fees and taxes when searching and comparing.

If you search for an area without dates, it comes up with some arbitrary dates and applies the fees and displays per night cost accordingly.

So it's technically possible. They just don't want to.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#536

Post by n144q »

rascul wrote: post #482
ensignavenger wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Japan has the exact same sales tax rate(s) across the entire country, and it rarely changes. In the US, we have thousands of different rates and they change multiple times per year. Also, while it is the norm in Japan to include the tax, there are some exceptions. (Japan has 2 rates, 8% for certain items like food, and 10% for everything else).

> In the US, we have thousands of different rates and they change multiple times per year. Where in the US do the sales tax rates change so frequently? I've never seen this.

My guess is that the comment means there is always some minor tweaks to tax laws, so that tax on certain products could change, and that may happen a few times a year. I don't think it means sales tax rate changes on all products a few times a year.

There is a caveat -- if you count the "sales tax holidays" in various US states, it means in those places, tax rates for some products change at least twice a year -- from 7% to 0% then back to 7%, for example.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#537

Post by reaperducer »

alistairSH wrote: post #211
reaperducer wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be honest, frequent travel and shopping over VPN is an edge case here. Everyone is an edge case in some form. You, included. Just have a VAT and be done with it. This just illustrates that you don't understand the that taxes have multiple purposes, and why taxes are the way they are. Attend a few city council meetings.

I understand why we levy taxes. I’m not a moron (or a jerk). Other countries manage with a much simpler tax scheme; we can try and do the same.

America doesn't want to be like other countries. You may remember there was a war or two about that.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#538

Post by impossiblefork »

LorenPechtel wrote: post #374
impossiblefork wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really basic contract law stuff. Here in Sweden, if the amount isn't clearly presented, there's no agreement to pay the specified amount, so there's no contract and no obligation to pay-- an agreement becomes binding because of the reasonable expectation of a party on the counterparty. I don't understand American contract law, since I even see ideas like changing agreements, which are completely contrary to the…

Mostly it comes down to the fees being presented at the end rather than at the beginning. You have to follow the process through to the end to figure out what it would cost which makes price comparisons much harder. Occasionally this is unavoidable--shipping charges. If they simply pass through what UPS charges, fine. Otherwise, they should be listed up front.

Ah, I'm thinking about EULAs etc. where people claim the right to change the agreement at any time etc.

With regard to shipping charges, don't you choose your shipping options and get to see the price before buying?

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#539

Post by daveguy »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #182
breadwinner wrote: post #140

This shouldn't be controversial. FTC isn't banning these fees, it is only requiring merchants to disclose the fees. Why would anyone be against that? Another good rule is click-to-cancel. Just a couple of days ago I logged into my Dish Network account to cancel it (after they hiked prices). There is no way to cancel online. There is no way to cancel via chat. You have to call. As soon as you call you're told the wait…

Of course it's controversial. They do this to increase profits. A certain portion of the population is pro-profit at virtually any cost. It might seem like Dish employees wake up every day and say, "What can we do today to screw our customers even more?" But usually they're just trying to find ways to make more money.

I think the GP meant it's not controversial to make the fees more transparent or even ban them. The dish employees (C-suite to be clear) and investors are the only ones who like it.

Re: FTC bans hidden junk fees in hotel, event ticket prices

#540

Post by mrguyorama »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #317
hiatus wrote: post #303

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So now likely hundreds (or more) of individuals have to not only wait on hold forever, but have to learn the process of and actually go through with filing a small claim? That there is recourse is beside the point when it is mired in bureaucracy (not to mention taking days off to show up to court, etc).

Class action suits may be easier, if only arbitration was opt-in-by-default or easier to opt out of.

Class action is an utter joke that has done nothing more than FURTHER commodify harming consumers for a price.

If a company sends you a $2 check ten years after they recognize a profit from defrauding you or lying to you or harming you, that's not a punishment, and is certainly not an incentive to not do those things.

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